74 replies to this topic

[bluebirdlover]

Female American Kestrel at the Birds in Flight Sanctuary. This is a lifer for me, but since I didn't see it in the wild, does it count?

[Shoveler26]

well technically no because it is not in the wild but you can keep a list of birds you saw in captivity. Yeah if you want it to be its your list so you could say you did.

[Photgog]

Your list is your own list and subject to your rules. But I don't count captured birds. Was this bird free flying at the sanctuary???

Fraser

[bluebirdlover]

I tried to post pic but...............

[sdearth]

Female American Kestrel at the Birds in Flight Sanctuary. This is a lifer for me, but since I didn't see it in the wild, does it count?

A sighting is a sighting. Are you saying it was in a cage?

[Photgog]

If you count captive birds then you could just go the Zoo and do all the African and European rare birds.

Fraser

[Shoveler26]

true that was my point too!

[BarnSwallow]

I agree with Photgog. If people listed captive birds, most could easily have hundreds and hundreds of birds on their life list. It would make it kind of pointless. If I didn't already have screech owl, I wouldn't have counted the baby one I had when my neighbor cut down a tree, not knowing there was a nest in it (I took it to a rehabber).

[ColoTomo]

If you count captive birds then you could just go the Zoo and do all the African and European rare birds.

Fraser

I knew I should have counted that Secretary Bird !!

All kidding aside, there's a good discussion in this thread:http://www.whatbird....8-lifer-or-not/ that someone brought up regarding counting a lifer.

With that said, I personally don't count any bird seen in a Zoo, Sanctuary, Bird Rehab, or captive in any way. I saw a Yellow-billed Cuckoo at a bird rehab-the only one I've seen ever- and it is not on my lifelist

[Photgog]

I knew I should have counted that Secretary Bird !!

All kidding aside, there's a good discussion in this thread:http://www.whatbird....8-lifer-or-not/ that someone brought up regarding counting a lifer.

With that said, I personally don't count any bird seen in a Zoo, Sanctuary, Bird Rehab, or captive in any way. I saw a Yellow-billed Cuckoo at a bird rehab-the only one I've seen ever- and it is not on my lifelist

It's not a very long stretch to start counting birds seen on Television.

Fraser

[ColoTomo]

It's not a very long stretch to start counting birds seen on Television.

Fraser

Then you start counting all the bird pictures you saw in your Stokes' field Guide! It's a slippery slope!

[BarnSwallow]

Hey! I saw Harry Potter, so I've got a phoenix on my life list! Not to mention hippogriff.

[Pat B.]

Your list, your rules. My own rules: I don't count a new bird unless I see it in the wild, alive (not roadkill); not good at birding-by-ear. I don't require a photograph. I will count a bird I didn't identify myself if there is someone with me who knows what they're doing and they tell me what it is and we talk about it and later I will go through my bird guides to see if I feel OK with it. I did this with the Wilson's Snipe sfrom yesterday: several people I was with IDd it and I looked at them with binocs and listened to them and checked my field guides later.

I would not personally count a restricted bird.

[doc]

Yes, your own rules. Now, I require a photo, but I do not have to ID it in the field..... I can use my photos and pore over the guides at home and then ask here on WhatBird. And I have quite strict rules otherwise. Several years ago people on this Forum ID'd a bird for me as a Red Crossbill..... I still don't believe them even tho it would be a fantastic lifer [it was a distant shot and I think it's just an insect in the bird's bill]. I guess I have a "really and truly" list and then a list of "maybe's". Oh, and I feel much better if I found the bird all on my lonesome rather than having it pointed out to me. My first Harris's Hawk was pointed out to me, but I felt it was truly "my bird" when I found it myself the next week. So...... make your own rules.

[Platypus]

I completely agree with everyone here saying that it's your lifelist, so it's your rules.

That being said, I've never met a birder that counted a captive or restricted bird as a lifer. That's contrary to the idea of a lifelist.

Different lifer criteria that I've heard of include: photographed birds only, good quality photographed birds only, personally identified birds only (rather than having someone tell you what it is), visual sightings only (rather than calls), etc. As stated above, many people also keep more than one list.

[Pat B.]

My first Harris's Hawk was pointed out to me, but I felt it was truly "my bird" when I found it myself the next week. So...... make your own rules.

Yes! I feel that way, also. I'll count that bird IDd by someone else, but I get itchy to out and find it again by myself. I had to see Soras four times until I felt like they were "mine." And, I must have seen 100 or so Sharp-shinned Hawks before I added them to my list.

[Cavan Wood]

Well technically, seeing a bird is simply a manifestation of electrical impulses in the brain, so perhaps I will start a list of birds that I have dreamed about or visualized, provided I can ID my own dream birds without submitting my brain scans to Whatbirdthoughts.

Seriously though, if a bird is native or from an established introduced population and is free to come and go (i.e. not captive), I would definitely count it. It's not much different than birds at your feeder really.

[Aveschapines]

I agree, as everyone said, you can make your own rules for your list. I also know that as a beginner it can be very hard to decide what standards are acceptable to you. I've made some decisions as I go along and I'm pretty comfortable with them at this point.

As to your specific question, I count free (not caged or in aviaries) birds I see at the zoo; our city zoo is a good place for some quick birding, but I go to the back away from the captive animals. I've gotten a number of lifers in there. I don't count the birds on display (but I look at them; our zoo focuses on local species so it's good to get a look at some I haven't seen in the wild).

I don't require a photo or confirmation if I'm sure about the ID; if I'm not 100% sure and I can't get a confirmation I don't count the bird.

I don't count dead birds.

I don't count birds I see and figure out months later what they were. I don't require and ID in the field but it needs to be within a reasonable amount of time after the sighting (a few days or so). I'm still looking for another White Breasted Hawk based on that rule! And I took a year from my first sighting of a Black Throated Green Warbler to when I saw one and knew what it was at the time!

I don't count birds that others have IDed for me but I'm not convinced or still can't see that it's what they say they are. For example, I didn't count the Magnificent Hummingbird someone identified online from a picture because I couldn't tell WHY it was a Magnificent. When I finally looked at one outside and could see for myself that it was a Mag, I counted it. Another example is an Emerald Toucanet we saw during the 2011 Christmas Bird Count. I DID see the bird, but only for a second or two flying overhead, enough to see that it was a bird and to get a general idea of the shape. I could not recognize an Emerald Toucanet if I saw one again based on that sighting. Everyone tried to convince me to count it, but I didn't feel I had really seen it. However, I had no trouble counting the pair of Red Tailed Hawks they pointed out to me, because I looked at them through the binocs and could see for myself that they were Red Taileds.

At one CBC there was a couple that left the count several hours early and then came back to the meeting, and they counted all the birds on their team's list for the day as lifers. I stayed the whole day, but only counted the ones that I had seen myself.

I'm not good enough yet to ID birds I don't know well by sound; so far I haven't counted them. If I could feel 100% sure, I might list them as heard only.

Hope all the ideas in this thread are helpful to you!

[creeker]

When I was rehabbing raptors, I must have had a dozen Short-eared Owls brought to me (they were usually sent over from a somewhat nearby marsh preserve. Not all at once.) Yet I've not seen one in the wild, so not on my list. I should have counted some that I was able to release back into the wild, as they were flying away. JK.

[BarnSwallow]

Somewhere I read that the basic guideline for that is that you can count it a half hour after its release, if you see it again. Assuming, I think, that it's a healthy bird that's been released into a suitable habitat.