8 replies to this topic

[PanHanNE]

All photos taken in Garden County Nebraska (panhandle)
Months of June and July

I have made myself a long checklist, to help decide between Cassin's and Western. Not all on the list are included here, but I am including some of the key reasons I made the decisions I came to.
I am almost certain that I am still doing it wrong, so any pointers you feel like giving, I will happily add to my checklist and try to sharpen my skills.
I am sure you are going to tell me "All are Western". At least I do not still think they are all canaries because they have yellow on them. I am a slow learner, but I am getting closer.

1>
build: not stocky (western)
Mask: Not noticeably distinctive (Cassin's)
Tail: individual tail feather width indistiguishable in distant shot. White edges (retrices) thin. (Cassin's or worn Western) Tail tip: faintly white, but probably sunlight in photo.
beak: longer, slender (western)
malar patch (light) either
extends under chin (either)
Contrasts: NO (western)
Color: lighter gray (western) fades into chest (western)
Undertail coverts: yellow (western)
Wing coverts edges and ends only slightly lighter than the rest of the feather. (western or worn Cassin's)

ID: Western


2>
Build: undecided (either)
Mask: Distinctive: Western
Tail:Faint white edge (retrice) showing. Most of tail hidden by wire. (either)
Beak: stouter (Cassin's)
Malar patch: gray, not distinctive (Western or bad lighting)
Contrasts: No (Western)
Color: Medium gray. Not lighter or darker. (either)
Undertail coverts: hidden
Wing coverts edges and ends only slightly lighter than the rest of the feather. (western or worn Cassin's)

ID: Western


3>
Build: Stockier (Cassin's)
Mask: bad lighting - either
Tail: Wider, with wider individual tail feathers (Cassin's) Bold white retrices (either) No white tips (Western or worn Cassin's)
Beak: Undecided
Malar patches: again, bad lighting, but continues under chin, and contrasts (Cassin's)
Color: darker gray (Cassin's)
Breast contrasts or blends with tummy: contrasts (Cassin's)
Undertail coverts: White (Cassin's)
Wing coverts (not showing)

ID: Worn Cassin's


4>
Build: Stockier (Cassin's)
Mask: Less distinctive (Cassin's)
Tail: hidden
Beak: odd angle, but wide, probably not thick (undecided)
Malar patch: distinctive, and continues under chin (Cassin's)
Color: medium to lighter gray (Western)
Undertail coverts: White (Cassin's)
Wing coverts: I rather think they are distinctive (Cassin's)

ID: Molting? Cassin's


5>
Beak: undecided
Build: Slender (Western)
Mask: Distinctive (Western)
Malar patches: white/light gray but do not continue under chin (Western)
Tail: no white showing. (Either)
Color: Medium to light gray, light yellow tummy.
Wing coverts: tips and edges only slightly lighter than rest of feather. (Western, or worn Cassin's)

ID: Western


6>
Build: Stocky (Cassin's)
Beak: hard to tell
Mask: Distinctive (Western)
Tail: Distinctive white retrices, no white tip showing on tail end. (Western)
Malar patches: white, continue under chin? yes (Cassin's) contrasts sharply? not really. (Western)
Tail: Narrow (Western)
Color: medium gray head (western), olive back(Cassins), bright yellow tummy (Cassin's)
Breast contrasts or blends? undecided
Undertail coverts... looks yellow, unsure
Wing coverts: first row light, second row distinctive. Undecided.

ID: yesterday, Western, today, Cassin's, the day before....



I had a Kingbird nest in the tree in my front yard, and my ID skills tells me it was Western, but the voice sounded like Cassin's. I know I am doing this wrong.
None of the photos of parents or fledgelings included here.

I upload all my photos on a remote server, not whatbird. and just link them here. Am I making my posts too long, or overloading the system?

[psweet]

I don't see a Cassin's in the bunch, I'm afraid. The strong white outer tail feathers should be enough to call them all Western.

[ginspin16]

i agree with all westerns. you can see the white edges on the tail feathers

[jblakelock]

I was looking at this last and had the sense that these were all Westerns as well, because of the white edging on the tails. I also checked Ebird and there is only one Cassin's sighting that I can see for Garden County and that was a couple of years ago at Crescent Lake NWR. Seems there's a lot more Cassin's sightings west of 385.

[Pat B.]

I meant to compliment you yesterday on your very detailed effort to ID these birds. No doubt you learned something in the process. A lesson for all of us!

[PanHanNE]

I was looking at this last and had the sense that these were all Westerns as well, because of the white edging on the tails. I also checked Ebird and there is only one Cassin's sighting that I can see for Garden County and that was a couple of years ago at Crescent Lake NWR. Seems there's a lot more Cassin's sightings west of 385.

If you do a little closer check on ebird, you will find there are only a handful of ANY reports for Garden County. It is not because the birds are not here, it is because no one here does reports on ebird. We definately have Cassin's here.

I meant to compliment you yesterday on your very detailed effort to ID these birds. No doubt you learned something in the process. A lesson for all of us!

Since we DO have Cassin's here, and I can tell the obvious ones, I am trying to learn to identify those that are not as obvious, when things like lighting, poor pictures, or birds position makes identification harder. One thing I have read on most of the material I have used is that you should not identify a Kingbird as a Western on the white at the side of the tail alone, unless the white strip is "significant", since Cassin's also display the white edges, not just the white tail tip. Most of the materials say to use a combination of field marks, with the KEY identification mark being the chin/throat, if possible, then high color contrast, and the wing markings. I chose photos of the birds that were taken at times I had heard both Cassin's and Western Kingbirds while I was out for the day. I guess I really had hoped that others would help me hone my skills on the other field marks, by pointing out what errors I may have made, and not just fall back on the tail. I had already stated, though, that I thought I would be told they were all Western, so that was probably the reason why.
Unfortunately, my photography skills are way worse than my identification skills, and I usually take about 50 photos before I find one that turned out good enough to use to even begin the identification processes on. (something that looks like a bird, not a blurry smudge) So I point and click on anything that sets still long enough to actually click the shutter before it is gone, not necessarily the bird of choice.

[psweet]

A 50 to one ratio for bird photos isn't bad at all -- it's just that most of us don't admit it. I haven't seen material that talks about white on the edge of the tail for Cassin's, but I can understand that they would show it -- there are Eastern Kingbirds here that show white on the outer tail feathers. On the other hand, I didn't see any of your birds that had the dark face and white mustache that I associate with Cassin's, either.
On another note, I agree with your point about e-bird's limitations. It only goes back a decade or so, it's based on what people decide to report, and there isn't much standardization of ID abilities. (they do seem to try to catch odd things, though.)

Looking at Sibley's, though, and what I know of NE Colorado from 10 years ago, I wouldn't have thought there were Cassin's that far north at all, so I guess the new data is worthwhile.

[PanHanNE]

A 50 to one ratio for bird photos isn't bad at all -- it's just that most of us don't admit it. I haven't seen material that talks about white on the edge of the tail for Cassin's, but I can understand that they would show it -- there are Eastern Kingbirds here that show white on the outer tail feathers. On the other hand, I didn't see any of your birds that had the dark face and white mustache that I associate with Cassin's, either.
On another note, I agree with your point about e-bird's limitations. It only goes back a decade or so, it's based on what people decide to report, and there isn't much standardization of ID abilities. (they do seem to try to catch odd things, though.)

Looking at Sibley's, though, and what I know of NE Colorado from 10 years ago, I wouldn't have thought there were Cassin's that far north at all, so I guess the new data is worthwhile.

Kenn Kaufman's A Practiced Eye - Western Kingbird Identification has hand drawn illustrations of the tail feathers:
http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/NAB/v046n02/p00323-p00326.pdf

(50 to 1 was a big exageration for me, too... it is probably a LOT more than that to find one usable picture. Usable, not "good".)

I believe that the Cassin's Kingbirds are found even further north than here in Nebraska... they are found in South Dakota and Montana, not sure about North Dakota.

[jblakelock]

An interesting point about Ebird. Something to keep in mind in the future. That said, it might still give a good picture of how prevalent Cassin's are versus Western. A lot more sightings of Western listed on Ebird, and likewise - according to the info that I found - Cassin's is listed as uncommon for Western Nebraska. Although one source indicated that Cassin's might be misidentified as Western and may lead to under-reporting.