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#1 sdearth

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:11 PM

confirm please

is this a black and a turkey shareing a meal. I remember reading one of the posts about juve turkeys having a black head. I still think the one on the right is a black. Cant we all just get along like this???

Posted Image

Life list = 279 as of 2/25/2014 Greater White-fronted Goose & Canvasback are the latest

 

2014 bird count = 101 as of 2/25/2014 Greater White-fronted Goose & Canvasback are the latest

 

Gwinnett County 2014 bird count = 78 as of 2/18/2014 Northern Pintail is the latest

 

2013 bird count was 204 for the year

 

photo list= 178 as of 2/3/2014 Greater White-fronted Goose is the latest

 

 

 

 


#2 GreatHorn

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:12 PM

You're right on! Good comparison, showing the shorter wings and tail of the Black Vulture. Unless I'm crazy, the skin on the head of the Black extends farther down than the Turkey...

Chace
Michigan List: 297


#3 BarnSwallow

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:13 PM

Yup, one of each! Good comparison photo - the black is blacker and has a shorter tail.

#4 sdearth

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:16 PM

I had a good turkey vulcher and was looking for a good black, but now I have one very good pic. It will be a while before I can get one better

Life list = 279 as of 2/25/2014 Greater White-fronted Goose & Canvasback are the latest

 

2014 bird count = 101 as of 2/25/2014 Greater White-fronted Goose & Canvasback are the latest

 

Gwinnett County 2014 bird count = 78 as of 2/18/2014 Northern Pintail is the latest

 

2013 bird count was 204 for the year

 

photo list= 178 as of 2/3/2014 Greater White-fronted Goose is the latest

 

 

 

 


#5 Aveschapines

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

Congratulations on the picture! You'll get better at telling the difference with a bit of practice. When they're flying, the different wing pattern and shape gets easy to recognize after a while. I often see Black and Turkey Vultures hanging out together.

Latest lifer: Ruddy-Capped Nightingale-Thrush


#6 psweet

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:30 PM

GreatHorn, that mark is something I've tried to use with no luck. Now, thanks to your statement and a little research, I know why -- turns out both species can expand or contract the skin on their heads, so the feathering can appear to reach the top of the nape, or halfway down the neck. On either species!

Ah, well, another neat idea killed by the facts!

#7 GreatHorn

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

Really! That is pretty neat. In that case, I'm not sure I've ever seen a TV with its skin expanded, nor a Black Vulture with its skin contracted. Can anybody find photos showing this phenomenon?

Chace
Michigan List: 297


#8 psweet

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:47 PM

That depends -- by photos do you mean quality shots?

I don't have any Black Vulture shots showing anything, but here's a couple of Turkey Vulture shots. The first one was taken with a film camera way back in 98.

Posted Image
Turkey Vulture 4 7-27-98 AZ by psweet1, on Flickr

Posted Image
Turkey Vulture 9-24-12 37 IL by psweet1, on Flickr

#9 cestma

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:47 PM

Really! That is pretty neat. In that case, I'm not sure I've ever seen a TV with its skin expanded, nor a Black Vulture with its skin contracted. Can anybody find photos showing this phenomenon?


Second hit in a google image search for TV:

http://www.google.co...9,r:6,s:0,i:171
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt II http://www.whatbird....ii/#entry551308
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt http://www.whatbird....4-oregon-jaunt/
Trip report: Birding in Michigan's Upper Peninsula http://www.whatbird....pper-peninsula/

#10 cestma

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:49 PM

That depends -- by photos do you mean quality shots?

I don't have any Black Vulture shots showing anything, but here's a couple of Turkey Vulture shots. The first one was taken with a film camera way back in 98.

Posted Image
Turkey Vulture 4 7-27-98 AZ by psweet1, on Flickr

Posted Image
Turkey Vulture 9-24-12 37 IL by psweet1, on Flickr


Crazy bullseye marking on that 2nd one!
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt II http://www.whatbird....ii/#entry551308
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt http://www.whatbird....4-oregon-jaunt/
Trip report: Birding in Michigan's Upper Peninsula http://www.whatbird....pper-peninsula/

#11 GreatHorn

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:53 PM

Okay, I think I'm seeing something different. On the BVs, the skin appears very thick and wrinkly, equivalent to that of a 90 year old person (no offense, Bigfoot). On TVs, the skin is flatter and smoother equivalent to that of a 16 year old. On the neck, it almost looks as though the skin of a BV overlaps its feathers, whereas the feathers of a TV most certainly overlap the skin.

TV: http://cabezaprieta....y_vulture_2.jpg
BV: http://world.std.com...ack_vulture.jpg

In the past I've seen this as something of a difference between them, am I seeing things?

Chace
Michigan List: 297


#12 cestma

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:03 AM

Again, a very brief google image search shows a lot of wrinkled TV's. Or is someone (me!) just missing your droll humor, again? :D

(I know that grammatically, that 'me' should be 'I'. It just sounds so...snooty...)
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt II http://www.whatbird....ii/#entry551308
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt http://www.whatbird....4-oregon-jaunt/
Trip report: Birding in Michigan's Upper Peninsula http://www.whatbird....pper-peninsula/

#13 psweet

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:06 AM

You may have something with regards to the wrinkles, but I'm not sure how useful it'll be in the field -- any bird you get that close to, you should already have nailed. I wouldn't be surprised if your experiences with the two may have to do with where and when you see them. I've seen it hypothesized, rather sensibly, I think, that the bare skin on vultures is actually a way of dealing with the temperature changes involved with quickly descending several thousand feet to feed. Which would suggest that if you're seeing Blacks towards the north end of their range, or in the winter, and Turkey Vultures in relatively warm weather, you'd see a difference between the two.

#14 psweet

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:08 AM

whoops, hadn't seen cestma's post!

#15 GreatHorn

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:10 AM

Again, a very brief google image search shows a lot of wrinkled TV's. Or is someone (me!) just missing your droll humor, again? :D

(I know that grammatically, that 'me' should be 'I'. It just sounds so...snooty...)

No deadpan, droll humor to see here. Please link your pictures, because I can't find any examples of TVs where the skin "overlaps" the feathers like on that BV.

Chace
Michigan List: 297


#16 cestma

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:12 AM

Well, admittedly I didn't click on any of them; guess I was thinking like psweet that if you were that close...

Here, we can click on them together. :D

https://www.google.c...c.1.2rty1MSm0gA
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt II http://www.whatbird....ii/#entry551308
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt http://www.whatbird....4-oregon-jaunt/
Trip report: Birding in Michigan's Upper Peninsula http://www.whatbird....pper-peninsula/

#17 cestma

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:14 AM

Doing the same cursory image search for BV, the most salient head diff that stand out for me is simply proportion. The TV's have so much more of a pinhead.
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt II http://www.whatbird....ii/#entry551308
Trip report: Oregon Jaunt http://www.whatbird....4-oregon-jaunt/
Trip report: Birding in Michigan's Upper Peninsula http://www.whatbird....pper-peninsula/

#18 GreatHorn

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:17 AM

Here, how about this one: http://vulturesociet...ood_nostril.jpg
Nope, it doesn't look like the BV

Maybe this? http://ibc.lynxeds.c..._Vulture_DD.jpg
Nope, not even close

Okay, how about: http://3.bp.blogspot...SC1862 copy.jpg
Hmmm, not that one either.

Now the Black Vulture comparisons...
http://www.vulture-t...ack-vulture.jpg
Hmmm....

http://ibc.lynxeds.c...e_ed_5_7_60.jpg
Need I say more?

Chace
Michigan List: 297


#19 Aveschapines

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:21 AM

I often use the very small head of a TV and the often very obvious light bill as distinguishing field marks.

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#20 psweet

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 12:21 AM

I must say, I'm impressed, cestma. I was only able to find one misidentified photo in that whole batch -- usually when I try google images I expect closer to 20%!

Wheeler actually mentions wrinkly skin on Black Vultures as an ID trait, and points out that you don't see it in juveniles. I still can't see using it in the field, but in photos where you can't see the back end, perhaps.

Another point for this sort of photo work -- juvenile Turkey Vultures are dark on the tip of the bill and white at the base. Black's are darker at the base, and paler at the tip.




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