Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Cooper's Hawk or Sharp-Shinned?


  • Please log in to reply
21 replies to this topic

#1 Rogue Birder

Rogue Birder

    Going Rogue!

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,947 posts
  • LocationBeavercreek, OH

Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

At Spring Grove Cemetery in Cincinnati 02/04 - I'm seeing Sharp-Shinned, but I figure it will be another Cooper's...

A little help?





Life List - 334; Year - 303

Year to Date - Ohio - 289; Indiana - 178; Illinois - 29; M*ch*g*n - 71; Kentucky - 38

Backyard List - 85 - Eastern Wood-Pewee (July 6, 2014) Eastern Screech-Owl (August 31, 2014) Gray-Cheeked Thrush (October 1, 2014)

States: Ohio - 291; Indiana - 203; California - 75; M*ch*g*n - 75; Maryland - 58; Kentucky - 38; Pennsylvania - 38; Illinois - 29; Tennessee - 6; Texas - 2 

Latest lifers: Harlequin Duck (November 6, 2014) Evening Grosbeak (November 7, 2014) Black Scoter (November 8, 2014) Eared Grebe (November 10, 2014)

My Blog - Rogue Birder

My Flickr - Rogue Photo

 


#2 Peeplvr

Peeplvr

    Derek Elsinger

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,114 posts

Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:42 PM

Cooper's, I like the big head and long-tailed look. I think you can see a pale nape in one photo.

#3 psweet

psweet

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 17,561 posts
  • LocationNortheast Illinois

Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:06 PM

Cooper's seconded.

#4 Rogue Birder

Rogue Birder

    Going Rogue!

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,947 posts
  • LocationBeavercreek, OH

Posted 07 February 2013 - 04:55 PM

Drats!!

Life List - 334; Year - 303

Year to Date - Ohio - 289; Indiana - 178; Illinois - 29; M*ch*g*n - 71; Kentucky - 38

Backyard List - 85 - Eastern Wood-Pewee (July 6, 2014) Eastern Screech-Owl (August 31, 2014) Gray-Cheeked Thrush (October 1, 2014)

States: Ohio - 291; Indiana - 203; California - 75; M*ch*g*n - 75; Maryland - 58; Kentucky - 38; Pennsylvania - 38; Illinois - 29; Tennessee - 6; Texas - 2 

Latest lifers: Harlequin Duck (November 6, 2014) Evening Grosbeak (November 7, 2014) Black Scoter (November 8, 2014) Eared Grebe (November 10, 2014)

My Blog - Rogue Birder

My Flickr - Rogue Photo

 


#5 cany

cany

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,466 posts
  • LocationSo. Cal. Foothills, Cleveland Ntl. Forest

Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

Cooper's seconded.


PSweet, what in those photos do you see to pos ID the Cooper's? It was my guess too, but just a guess.

I eliminated RT and RS and came to Cooper's or Sharpie due to tail length, and while the hawk does look greyish back and head, that's as far as I got with those last two things uncertain. Trying to learn:)

New Birder January 1, 2013
Life list: 336
Most recent lifers: Black Scoter, Chestnut-sided Warbler, Prothonotary Warbler, Olive-backed Pipet, Northern Parula, Tennessee Warbler, Blackburnian Warbler, Vesper Sparrow, Craveri's MurreletAshy Storm-Petral, Grasshopper Sparrow, Willow Flycatcher, Barn Owl, Olive-sided Flycatcher, Sabine's Gull, Scripp's Murrelet, Rhinoceros Auklet, Black Storm-Petral, MacGillivray's Warbler, Black-chinned Sparrow, Gull-billed Tern, Calliope Hummingbird,  Red Knot, Violet-green Swallow, Short-billed Dowitcher, Mountain Quail, Summer Tanager, Dusky Flycatcher, Baltimore Oriole, Sage Thrasher, Northern Saw-whet Owl, Western Screech Owl, Cassin's Vireo, Northern Waterthrush, Rusty Blackbird, Tricolored Blackbird, Burrowing Owl, Prairie Falcon, White-winged Scoter, Herring Gull, Scissor-tailed Flycatcher, Hermit Warbler, Lewis's Woodpecker, Plumbeous Vireo

 
-- DONE! My first goal is met: get 100 birds in the first week of January (and I'm over count and still have two days to go). My approach was not to go after the easy birds, but the harder ones and pick up the easier ones along the way. So meeting this goal without really birding the easy spots is encouraging. I might feel different in August.
--  DONE! My goal for the next week (through the 15th) is to get my count up somewhere around 160. That shouldn't be too hard I don't think as I am missing a number of pretty easy species because I've been concentrating on local rarities. I am, however, taking a trip to the grasslands on Sunday hoping to get a new raptor or two and Mountain Bluebird.
--  DONE! With (yeah!) days to go! My goal for this week (through the 22nd of Jan) is to get my numbers up to around 170. I'd like to hit 175. We'll see. (I was 9 birds over... horray!)
--  1/2 DONE This week's goal will be to get my life list to 300 and my seen list up to 195. Did not get my life list to 300. Didn't leave the county this week.
--  Finally completed last week's goal.
--  DONE! This weeks goal (to Feb 14) is to get to 206 seen birds, including at least one owl (heard or seen for owl), and add at least one life bird.
 
This year's goal: Get life list to 400, see 365 different birds this year, and travel to at least three other states. The last part is the hardest for me.
 
Seen/heard: 306 (one is under discussion)
To go: 59

 

My new Blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

 


#6 psweet

psweet

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 17,561 posts
  • LocationNortheast Illinois

Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:04 PM

I was going mostly on what I could see of the face pattern.

#7 cany

cany

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,466 posts
  • LocationSo. Cal. Foothills, Cleveland Ntl. Forest

Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:39 PM

I was going mostly on what I could see of the face pattern.


Thanks:)

New Birder January 1, 2013
Life list: 336
Most recent lifers: Black Scoter, Chestnut-sided Warbler, Prothonotary Warbler, Olive-backed Pipet, Northern Parula, Tennessee Warbler, Blackburnian Warbler, Vesper Sparrow, Craveri's MurreletAshy Storm-Petral, Grasshopper Sparrow, Willow Flycatcher, Barn Owl, Olive-sided Flycatcher, Sabine's Gull, Scripp's Murrelet, Rhinoceros Auklet, Black Storm-Petral, MacGillivray's Warbler, Black-chinned Sparrow, Gull-billed Tern, Calliope Hummingbird,  Red Knot, Violet-green Swallow, Short-billed Dowitcher, Mountain Quail, Summer Tanager, Dusky Flycatcher, Baltimore Oriole, Sage Thrasher, Northern Saw-whet Owl, Western Screech Owl, Cassin's Vireo, Northern Waterthrush, Rusty Blackbird, Tricolored Blackbird, Burrowing Owl, Prairie Falcon, White-winged Scoter, Herring Gull, Scissor-tailed Flycatcher, Hermit Warbler, Lewis's Woodpecker, Plumbeous Vireo

 
-- DONE! My first goal is met: get 100 birds in the first week of January (and I'm over count and still have two days to go). My approach was not to go after the easy birds, but the harder ones and pick up the easier ones along the way. So meeting this goal without really birding the easy spots is encouraging. I might feel different in August.
--  DONE! My goal for the next week (through the 15th) is to get my count up somewhere around 160. That shouldn't be too hard I don't think as I am missing a number of pretty easy species because I've been concentrating on local rarities. I am, however, taking a trip to the grasslands on Sunday hoping to get a new raptor or two and Mountain Bluebird.
--  DONE! With (yeah!) days to go! My goal for this week (through the 22nd of Jan) is to get my numbers up to around 170. I'd like to hit 175. We'll see. (I was 9 birds over... horray!)
--  1/2 DONE This week's goal will be to get my life list to 300 and my seen list up to 195. Did not get my life list to 300. Didn't leave the county this week.
--  Finally completed last week's goal.
--  DONE! This weeks goal (to Feb 14) is to get to 206 seen birds, including at least one owl (heard or seen for owl), and add at least one life bird.
 
This year's goal: Get life list to 400, see 365 different birds this year, and travel to at least three other states. The last part is the hardest for me.
 
Seen/heard: 306 (one is under discussion)
To go: 59

 

My new Blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

 


#8 cany

cany

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,466 posts
  • LocationSo. Cal. Foothills, Cleveland Ntl. Forest

Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:42 PM

Cooper's, I like the big head and long-tailed look. I think you can see a pale nape in one photo.


It seems like the tail is almost as long as the body:) The shape is something different for me than the hawks I usually see. The sharpies and coops are harder for me.

New Birder January 1, 2013
Life list: 336
Most recent lifers: Black Scoter, Chestnut-sided Warbler, Prothonotary Warbler, Olive-backed Pipet, Northern Parula, Tennessee Warbler, Blackburnian Warbler, Vesper Sparrow, Craveri's MurreletAshy Storm-Petral, Grasshopper Sparrow, Willow Flycatcher, Barn Owl, Olive-sided Flycatcher, Sabine's Gull, Scripp's Murrelet, Rhinoceros Auklet, Black Storm-Petral, MacGillivray's Warbler, Black-chinned Sparrow, Gull-billed Tern, Calliope Hummingbird,  Red Knot, Violet-green Swallow, Short-billed Dowitcher, Mountain Quail, Summer Tanager, Dusky Flycatcher, Baltimore Oriole, Sage Thrasher, Northern Saw-whet Owl, Western Screech Owl, Cassin's Vireo, Northern Waterthrush, Rusty Blackbird, Tricolored Blackbird, Burrowing Owl, Prairie Falcon, White-winged Scoter, Herring Gull, Scissor-tailed Flycatcher, Hermit Warbler, Lewis's Woodpecker, Plumbeous Vireo

 
-- DONE! My first goal is met: get 100 birds in the first week of January (and I'm over count and still have two days to go). My approach was not to go after the easy birds, but the harder ones and pick up the easier ones along the way. So meeting this goal without really birding the easy spots is encouraging. I might feel different in August.
--  DONE! My goal for the next week (through the 15th) is to get my count up somewhere around 160. That shouldn't be too hard I don't think as I am missing a number of pretty easy species because I've been concentrating on local rarities. I am, however, taking a trip to the grasslands on Sunday hoping to get a new raptor or two and Mountain Bluebird.
--  DONE! With (yeah!) days to go! My goal for this week (through the 22nd of Jan) is to get my numbers up to around 170. I'd like to hit 175. We'll see. (I was 9 birds over... horray!)
--  1/2 DONE This week's goal will be to get my life list to 300 and my seen list up to 195. Did not get my life list to 300. Didn't leave the county this week.
--  Finally completed last week's goal.
--  DONE! This weeks goal (to Feb 14) is to get to 206 seen birds, including at least one owl (heard or seen for owl), and add at least one life bird.
 
This year's goal: Get life list to 400, see 365 different birds this year, and travel to at least three other states. The last part is the hardest for me.
 
Seen/heard: 306 (one is under discussion)
To go: 59

 

My new Blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

 


#9 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:57 PM

wow, i see pale nape in top picture and very thin legs in the second.. is this the same bird?

#10 Rogue Birder

Rogue Birder

    Going Rogue!

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,947 posts
  • LocationBeavercreek, OH

Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

The legs are what made me think sharp. The bird standing on the ground was taken first (through snowy windshield. I watched it fly to a tree and then drove as close to the tree as I could for the second photo.

Life List - 334; Year - 303

Year to Date - Ohio - 289; Indiana - 178; Illinois - 29; M*ch*g*n - 71; Kentucky - 38

Backyard List - 85 - Eastern Wood-Pewee (July 6, 2014) Eastern Screech-Owl (August 31, 2014) Gray-Cheeked Thrush (October 1, 2014)

States: Ohio - 291; Indiana - 203; California - 75; M*ch*g*n - 75; Maryland - 58; Kentucky - 38; Pennsylvania - 38; Illinois - 29; Tennessee - 6; Texas - 2 

Latest lifers: Harlequin Duck (November 6, 2014) Evening Grosbeak (November 7, 2014) Black Scoter (November 8, 2014) Eared Grebe (November 10, 2014)

My Blog - Rogue Birder

My Flickr - Rogue Photo

 


#11 TheBillyPilgrim

TheBillyPilgrim

    Frank

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,125 posts
  • LocationHampton, VA

Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:35 PM

I'd be careful using that thin leg character from a single photo. These guys have laterally compressed tarsi and both species can look very thin, depending on the angle. Additionally, it's a rather relative/subjective character if you don't have another bird to compare it against. I agree with Cooper's Hawk for this bird.

Life List: 700

Latest birds:  Rock Ptarmigan, Northern Hawk Owl, Vaux's Swift

ABA 2014: 343 species
Virginia 2014: 243
Isle of Wight County 2014: 182 species

My Flickr
eBird
 

Nevada Field Season Report: http://www.whatbird....-season-report/

Costa Rica Trip Report: http://www.whatbird....rt/#entry396425


#12 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:36 PM

im not sure what lateral compressed tarsi is..but the nape screams coopers, legs say sharpie. i guess its the angle of the photo.

#13 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:40 PM

i just googled. i came up with stuff i have no idea what they are talking about...lol

#14 psweet

psweet

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 17,561 posts
  • LocationNortheast Illinois

Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:40 PM

Tarsi refer to the lower part of a bird's leg (which is actually analogous to the long bones in our feet). Laterally compressed means that they are thinner from left to right than they are front to back. In a photo like this, I would also be careful using that feature because it's common for a white background to bleed around a thin object like a bird's leg, which will make it look thinner.

#15 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:43 PM

oh ok, ty psweet. you explained it very well :). yes, pale nape makes it a coopers.

#16 ololaiki

ololaiki

    ololaiki

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,844 posts
  • LocationSammamish, WA

Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:55 PM

Tarsi refer to the lower part of a bird's leg (which is actually analogous to the long bones in our feet). Laterally compressed means that they are thinner from left to right than they are front to back. In a photo like this, I would also be careful using that feature because it's common for a white background to bleed around a thin object like a bird's leg, which will make it look thinner.


Wow! Short paragraph and so much information. Thank you psweet!

#17 cany

cany

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,466 posts
  • LocationSo. Cal. Foothills, Cleveland Ntl. Forest

Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:24 PM

Tarsi refer to the lower part of a bird's leg (which is actually analogous to the long bones in our feet). Laterally compressed means that they are thinner from left to right than they are front to back. In a photo like this, I would also be careful using that feature because it's common for a white background to bleed around a thin object like a bird's leg, which will make it look thinner.


Thank heavens I took a year of zoology years ago:) I still remember a lot of it and while it's different in birds than mammals, a lot is similar. It really helps.

New Birder January 1, 2013
Life list: 336
Most recent lifers: Black Scoter, Chestnut-sided Warbler, Prothonotary Warbler, Olive-backed Pipet, Northern Parula, Tennessee Warbler, Blackburnian Warbler, Vesper Sparrow, Craveri's MurreletAshy Storm-Petral, Grasshopper Sparrow, Willow Flycatcher, Barn Owl, Olive-sided Flycatcher, Sabine's Gull, Scripp's Murrelet, Rhinoceros Auklet, Black Storm-Petral, MacGillivray's Warbler, Black-chinned Sparrow, Gull-billed Tern, Calliope Hummingbird,  Red Knot, Violet-green Swallow, Short-billed Dowitcher, Mountain Quail, Summer Tanager, Dusky Flycatcher, Baltimore Oriole, Sage Thrasher, Northern Saw-whet Owl, Western Screech Owl, Cassin's Vireo, Northern Waterthrush, Rusty Blackbird, Tricolored Blackbird, Burrowing Owl, Prairie Falcon, White-winged Scoter, Herring Gull, Scissor-tailed Flycatcher, Hermit Warbler, Lewis's Woodpecker, Plumbeous Vireo

 
-- DONE! My first goal is met: get 100 birds in the first week of January (and I'm over count and still have two days to go). My approach was not to go after the easy birds, but the harder ones and pick up the easier ones along the way. So meeting this goal without really birding the easy spots is encouraging. I might feel different in August.
--  DONE! My goal for the next week (through the 15th) is to get my count up somewhere around 160. That shouldn't be too hard I don't think as I am missing a number of pretty easy species because I've been concentrating on local rarities. I am, however, taking a trip to the grasslands on Sunday hoping to get a new raptor or two and Mountain Bluebird.
--  DONE! With (yeah!) days to go! My goal for this week (through the 22nd of Jan) is to get my numbers up to around 170. I'd like to hit 175. We'll see. (I was 9 birds over... horray!)
--  1/2 DONE This week's goal will be to get my life list to 300 and my seen list up to 195. Did not get my life list to 300. Didn't leave the county this week.
--  Finally completed last week's goal.
--  DONE! This weeks goal (to Feb 14) is to get to 206 seen birds, including at least one owl (heard or seen for owl), and add at least one life bird.
 
This year's goal: Get life list to 400, see 365 different birds this year, and travel to at least three other states. The last part is the hardest for me.
 
Seen/heard: 306 (one is under discussion)
To go: 59

 

My new Blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

 


#18 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:45 PM

my dad taught zoology, psysiology and anatomy for years in college. i should know more about that kind of stuff but i dont.lol

#19 cany

cany

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,466 posts
  • LocationSo. Cal. Foothills, Cleveland Ntl. Forest

Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:54 PM

my dad taught zoology, psysiology and anatomy for years in college. i should know more about that kind of stuff but i dont.lol


Who knows! If it was local, maybe I took classes from him:)

New Birder January 1, 2013
Life list: 336
Most recent lifers: Black Scoter, Chestnut-sided Warbler, Prothonotary Warbler, Olive-backed Pipet, Northern Parula, Tennessee Warbler, Blackburnian Warbler, Vesper Sparrow, Craveri's MurreletAshy Storm-Petral, Grasshopper Sparrow, Willow Flycatcher, Barn Owl, Olive-sided Flycatcher, Sabine's Gull, Scripp's Murrelet, Rhinoceros Auklet, Black Storm-Petral, MacGillivray's Warbler, Black-chinned Sparrow, Gull-billed Tern, Calliope Hummingbird,  Red Knot, Violet-green Swallow, Short-billed Dowitcher, Mountain Quail, Summer Tanager, Dusky Flycatcher, Baltimore Oriole, Sage Thrasher, Northern Saw-whet Owl, Western Screech Owl, Cassin's Vireo, Northern Waterthrush, Rusty Blackbird, Tricolored Blackbird, Burrowing Owl, Prairie Falcon, White-winged Scoter, Herring Gull, Scissor-tailed Flycatcher, Hermit Warbler, Lewis's Woodpecker, Plumbeous Vireo

 
-- DONE! My first goal is met: get 100 birds in the first week of January (and I'm over count and still have two days to go). My approach was not to go after the easy birds, but the harder ones and pick up the easier ones along the way. So meeting this goal without really birding the easy spots is encouraging. I might feel different in August.
--  DONE! My goal for the next week (through the 15th) is to get my count up somewhere around 160. That shouldn't be too hard I don't think as I am missing a number of pretty easy species because I've been concentrating on local rarities. I am, however, taking a trip to the grasslands on Sunday hoping to get a new raptor or two and Mountain Bluebird.
--  DONE! With (yeah!) days to go! My goal for this week (through the 22nd of Jan) is to get my numbers up to around 170. I'd like to hit 175. We'll see. (I was 9 birds over... horray!)
--  1/2 DONE This week's goal will be to get my life list to 300 and my seen list up to 195. Did not get my life list to 300. Didn't leave the county this week.
--  Finally completed last week's goal.
--  DONE! This weeks goal (to Feb 14) is to get to 206 seen birds, including at least one owl (heard or seen for owl), and add at least one life bird.
 
This year's goal: Get life list to 400, see 365 different birds this year, and travel to at least three other states. The last part is the hardest for me.
 
Seen/heard: 306 (one is under discussion)
To go: 59

 

My new Blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

 


#20 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 07 February 2013 - 10:01 PM

could be.. it was back in the late 70's, early 80's. he taught from 1949-the 80s, then retired. he was the chairman of the Life Science Dept at Los Angeles City College. i went there also back then :)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users