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#1 fisherman1313

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:57 AM

I'd like to get opinions on this sapsucker seen near Oakdale, CA over the past few months. The bird has been frequenting the yard of a friend of mine since November. I'm posting a link because these are not my pics. http://sasbirds.smugmug.com/Birds/6-Owls-Nightjars-Hummers/12255266_87QgF4#!i=2373074526&k=N45VqXd

#2 TytoAlba

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:09 AM

Red-naped?

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#3 KevinBirdDog

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:26 AM

I would say red-naped is a pretty good bet.

btw i am jealous of his owl pics!
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#4 TowheeTwo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:08 AM

Do you have a photo of his back?
Do you have Yellow-bellied sapsuckers in your area? I see some Y-B likenesses in the face area; like black border on red throat patch & eye is in the middle of dark stripe.

I can't comment on hybrid possibilities, as I've never seen a hybrid. BTW, I've never seen a red naped either. Sorry if my comments lead down the wrong path.


Edited: because:
I did not think to look at the other photos. I agree, the back is most suggestive of a red-naped. Carry on...

#5 fisherman1313

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:58 AM

TowheeTwo, there are four pics of the same bird, two showing the back.

#6 Phoenix Bird

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

Red naped sapsucker because of the extensive red in his throat with an incomplete black border.
Yellow-bellied sapsuckers would show a smaller amount of red with a complete thicker black border.


#7 TowheeTwo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:16 PM

TowheeTwo, there are four pics of the same bird, two showing the back.


Oop's, I did not think to look at the other photos. I agree, the back is most suggestive of a red-naped.

#8 psweet

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:56 PM

I'd say there's a bit of Red-breasted in this guy's background, not sure how many generations back.

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#9 darknight

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:24 PM

I agree with psweet, the red flecks behind the eye shouldn't be shown on a pure red-naped.

In my defense, spellcheck though that my typing was correct, and who am I to argue..

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#10 Guest_Birdluvr_*

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

its a pure red naped. allboutbirds website shows red flecks behind the eye on a pure red naped and ive seen them before around here. some do have red flecks behind the eye :) the extend of the red varies.

#11 psweet

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

It isn't the red flecks behind the eye I was looking at, it was the red flecks on the upper breast.

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#12 Guest_Birdluvr_*

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:23 PM

oh ok, i was reading darkknights comment about the red flecks behind the eye. i thought that you and darkknight were talking about the same red flecks.. i see what you mean now.

#13 darknight

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:39 PM

I knew that the red on Red-naped extended into the black mustache, but I didn't know it could extend into the black line through the eye.

In my defense, spellcheck though that my typing was correct, and who am I to argue..

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#14 fisherman1313

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:42 AM

Thanks for the comments. This bird was originally IDed as Red-naped, it took a few months for my friend to get good enough pics to show the extra red. I was pretty bummed when I found out, it would have been a lifer.

#15 TytoAlba

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:46 AM

So even though this bird is likely 80% red-naped if not more, you don't count it? I haven't run into this kind of situation with my life list yet, but what is protocol?

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#16 Phoenix Bird

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

I think everyone agreed its a red-naped, maybe a discussion about possible mixed way back, but nothing concrete. ;)
I would have no problem counting it. Its a red-naped

#17 darknight

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

Red-naped and Red-breasted Sapsuckers interbreed where there ranges overlap, and the hybrids vary in appearance. While this bird mostly looks like a Red-naped Sapsucker, it's certainly a hybrid, because of the more extensive red on the breast. I'm not qualified to say if it's a first generation hybrid, or a backcross (I'm not even sure of the degree of backcrossing these two species are capable of, or if the hybrids are fertile), but it's definitely not a pure Red-naped, and as such, not technically countable. It's a tough call, because it looks pretty close to a normal Red-naped. A similar situation in the east would be Blue-winged and Golden-winged Warblers.. would you count a bird that looked mostly like a Golden-winged Warbler, but had some slightly off characteristics, or would you consider it an uncountable hybrid?

In my defense, spellcheck though that my typing was correct, and who am I to argue..

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#18 darknight

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:34 PM

I just looked it up, and apparently these two species have fertile hybirds, so it's quite possible that this is a backcross (red-naped x Red-breasted that bred with a pure Red-naped).

In my defense, spellcheck though that my typing was correct, and who am I to argue..

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#19 TheBillyPilgrim

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:43 PM

I just looked it up, and apparently these two species have fertile hybirds, so it's quite possible that this is a backcross (red-naped x Red-breasted that bred with a pure Red-naped).


Yep,the two used to be considered conspecific.

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#20 JimBob

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

I agree, it's a hybrid. Not countable, but IMO a great bird!

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