fisherman1313

Sapsucker

21 posts in this topic

Do you have a photo of his back?

Do you have Yellow-bellied sapsuckers in your area? I see some Y-B likenesses in the face area; like black border on red throat patch & eye is in the middle of dark stripe.

I can't comment on hybrid possibilities, as I've never seen a hybrid. BTW, I've never seen a red naped either. Sorry if my comments lead down the wrong path.

Edited: because:

I did not think to look at the other photos. I agree, the back is most suggestive of a red-naped. Carry on...

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Red naped sapsucker because of the extensive red in his throat with an incomplete black border.

Yellow-bellied sapsuckers would show a smaller amount of red with a complete thicker black border.

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TowheeTwo, there are four pics of the same bird, two showing the back.

Oop's, I did not think to look at the other photos. I agree, the back is most suggestive of a red-naped.

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I'd say there's a bit of Red-breasted in this guy's background, not sure how many generations back.

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I agree with psweet, the red flecks behind the eye shouldn't be shown on a pure red-naped.

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its a pure red naped. allboutbirds website shows red flecks behind the eye on a pure red naped and ive seen them before around here. some do have red flecks behind the eye :) the extend of the red varies.

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It isn't the red flecks behind the eye I was looking at, it was the red flecks on the upper breast.

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oh ok, i was reading darkknights comment about the red flecks behind the eye. i thought that you and darkknight were talking about the same red flecks.. i see what you mean now.

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I knew that the red on Red-naped extended into the black mustache, but I didn't know it could extend into the black line through the eye.

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Thanks for the comments. This bird was originally IDed as Red-naped, it took a few months for my friend to get good enough pics to show the extra red. I was pretty bummed when I found out, it would have been a lifer.

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So even though this bird is likely 80% red-naped if not more, you don't count it? I haven't run into this kind of situation with my life list yet, but what is protocol?

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I think everyone agreed its a red-naped, maybe a discussion about possible mixed way back, but nothing concrete. ;)

I would have no problem counting it. Its a red-naped

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Red-naped and Red-breasted Sapsuckers interbreed where there ranges overlap, and the hybrids vary in appearance. While this bird mostly looks like a Red-naped Sapsucker, it's certainly a hybrid, because of the more extensive red on the breast. I'm not qualified to say if it's a first generation hybrid, or a backcross (I'm not even sure of the degree of backcrossing these two species are capable of, or if the hybrids are fertile), but it's definitely not a pure Red-naped, and as such, not technically countable. It's a tough call, because it looks pretty close to a normal Red-naped. A similar situation in the east would be Blue-winged and Golden-winged Warblers.. would you count a bird that looked mostly like a Golden-winged Warbler, but had some slightly off characteristics, or would you consider it an uncountable hybrid?

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I just looked it up, and apparently these two species have fertile hybirds, so it's quite possible that this is a backcross (red-naped x Red-breasted that bred with a pure Red-naped).

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I just looked it up, and apparently these two species have fertile hybirds, so it's quite possible that this is a backcross (red-naped x Red-breasted that bred with a pure Red-naped).

Yep,the two used to be considered conspecific.

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Red-naped and Red-breasted Sapsuckers interbreed where there ranges overlap, and the hybrids vary in appearance. While this bird mostly looks like a Red-naped Sapsucker, it's certainly a hybrid, because of the more extensive red on the breast. I'm not qualified to say if it's a first generation hybrid, or a backcross (I'm not even sure of the degree of backcrossing these two species are capable of, or if the hybrids are fertile), but it's definitely not a pure Red-naped, and as such, not technically countable. It's a tough call, because it looks pretty close to a normal Red-naped. A similar situation in the east would be Blue-winged and Golden-winged Warblers.. would you count a bird that looked mostly like a Golden-winged Warbler, but had some slightly off characteristics, or would you consider it an uncountable hybrid?

I agree, it's a hybrid. Not countable, but IMO a great bird!

Exactly. I did still list it in the "Best Bird(s)" column on my trip list sheet that I started keeping a few months ago, but I put the Lesser Flamingo that was at the Ceres (CA) sewage ponds back in August on that sheet. too.

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