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#1 fisherman1313

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:57 AM

I'd like to get opinions on this sapsucker seen near Oakdale, CA over the past few months. The bird has been frequenting the yard of a friend of mine since November. I'm posting a link because these are not my pics. http://sasbirds.smugmug.com/Birds/6-Owls-Nightjars-Hummers/12255266_87QgF4#!i=2373074526&k=N45VqXd

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Latest Lifer(s):

Sooty Grouse, Great Gray Owl: Yosemite National Park, Mariposa County, CA, 8/18/14

Calliope Hummingbird, Evening Grosbeak: Niagara Creek Campgrounds, Tuolumne County, CA 8/4/14

Northern Goshawk: Eagle Meadow, Tuolumne County, CA, 8/4

Pine Grosbeak: Plasse's Resort, Amador County, CA, 7/27/14

Northern Pygmy Owl (FINALLY!): Del Puerto Canyon, Stanislaus County, CA, 3/24/14

 

Favorite Recent Birds (non-lifers):

Short-billed Dowitcher: Ceres Wastewater Treatment Facility, Cere, CA, 8/20/14

Yellow-bellied Sapsucker: Yosemite National Park, Mariposa County, CA, 8/18/14

Peregrine Falcon, Black Tern, Bank Swallow: Modesto Wastewater treatment Facility, Modesto, CA, 8/10/14

Mountain Quail: Hwy 108 at Cow Creek, Tulomne County, CA, 8/4/14

Prairie Falcon, Pileated Woodpecker (5), Pygmy Nuthatch: Plasse's Resort, Amador County, CA, 7/27/14

Western Screech-Owl: Enslen Park, Modesto, CA, 4/16/14, 7/2/14, 7/6/14


#2 TytoAlba

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:09 AM

Red-naped?

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#3 KevinBirdDog

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:26 AM

I would say red-naped is a pretty good bet.

btw i am jealous of his owl pics!
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#4 TowheeTwo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:08 AM

Do you have a photo of his back?
Do you have Yellow-bellied sapsuckers in your area? I see some Y-B likenesses in the face area; like black border on red throat patch & eye is in the middle of dark stripe.

I can't comment on hybrid possibilities, as I've never seen a hybrid. BTW, I've never seen a red naped either. Sorry if my comments lead down the wrong path.


Edited: because:
I did not think to look at the other photos. I agree, the back is most suggestive of a red-naped. Carry on...

#5 fisherman1313

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:58 AM

TowheeTwo, there are four pics of the same bird, two showing the back.

The sludge caught in the mind's filter, the stuff that refuses to go through, frequently becomes each person's private obsession. In civilized society we have an unspoken agreement to call our obsessions "hobbies". - Stephen King

 

All Yellow Warblers are yellow warblers, but not all yellow warblers are Yellow Warblers. - Me

 

My Year List

Spoiler

 

Latest Lifer(s):

Sooty Grouse, Great Gray Owl: Yosemite National Park, Mariposa County, CA, 8/18/14

Calliope Hummingbird, Evening Grosbeak: Niagara Creek Campgrounds, Tuolumne County, CA 8/4/14

Northern Goshawk: Eagle Meadow, Tuolumne County, CA, 8/4

Pine Grosbeak: Plasse's Resort, Amador County, CA, 7/27/14

Northern Pygmy Owl (FINALLY!): Del Puerto Canyon, Stanislaus County, CA, 3/24/14

 

Favorite Recent Birds (non-lifers):

Short-billed Dowitcher: Ceres Wastewater Treatment Facility, Cere, CA, 8/20/14

Yellow-bellied Sapsucker: Yosemite National Park, Mariposa County, CA, 8/18/14

Peregrine Falcon, Black Tern, Bank Swallow: Modesto Wastewater treatment Facility, Modesto, CA, 8/10/14

Mountain Quail: Hwy 108 at Cow Creek, Tulomne County, CA, 8/4/14

Prairie Falcon, Pileated Woodpecker (5), Pygmy Nuthatch: Plasse's Resort, Amador County, CA, 7/27/14

Western Screech-Owl: Enslen Park, Modesto, CA, 4/16/14, 7/2/14, 7/6/14


#6 Phoenix Bird

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:57 AM

Red naped sapsucker because of the extensive red in his throat with an incomplete black border.
Yellow-bellied sapsuckers would show a smaller amount of red with a complete thicker black border.


#7 TowheeTwo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:16 PM

TowheeTwo, there are four pics of the same bird, two showing the back.


Oop's, I did not think to look at the other photos. I agree, the back is most suggestive of a red-naped.

#8 psweet

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 01:56 PM

I'd say there's a bit of Red-breasted in this guy's background, not sure how many generations back.

#9 darknight

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:24 PM

I agree with psweet, the red flecks behind the eye shouldn't be shown on a pure red-naped.

There are 976 species on the ABA list. Looks like I've got a lot of birding to do....

Life List (World): 1094 species
ABA area: 634
Latest ABA lifers: Least Storm-Petrel, Ashy Storm-Petrel, Black Storm-Petrel, Craveri's Murrelet, White-eared Hummingbird, Ruff, Black-vented Shearwater, Rosy-faced Lovebird, Sinaloa Wren, Rufous-capped Warbler, Greater Sage-Grouse, Harris Sparrow, Tufted Duck, Red-throated Pipit, 
California: 348
Riverside County, CA: 256
2014 ABA: 409

2014 World: 669


#10 Guest_Birdluvr_*

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:02 PM

its a pure red naped. allboutbirds website shows red flecks behind the eye on a pure red naped and ive seen them before around here. some do have red flecks behind the eye :) the extend of the red varies.

#11 psweet

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:16 PM

It isn't the red flecks behind the eye I was looking at, it was the red flecks on the upper breast.

#12 Guest_Birdluvr_*

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:23 PM

oh ok, i was reading darkknights comment about the red flecks behind the eye. i thought that you and darkknight were talking about the same red flecks.. i see what you mean now.

#13 darknight

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:39 PM

I knew that the red on Red-naped extended into the black mustache, but I didn't know it could extend into the black line through the eye.

There are 976 species on the ABA list. Looks like I've got a lot of birding to do....

Life List (World): 1094 species
ABA area: 634
Latest ABA lifers: Least Storm-Petrel, Ashy Storm-Petrel, Black Storm-Petrel, Craveri's Murrelet, White-eared Hummingbird, Ruff, Black-vented Shearwater, Rosy-faced Lovebird, Sinaloa Wren, Rufous-capped Warbler, Greater Sage-Grouse, Harris Sparrow, Tufted Duck, Red-throated Pipit, 
California: 348
Riverside County, CA: 256
2014 ABA: 409

2014 World: 669


#14 fisherman1313

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:42 AM

Thanks for the comments. This bird was originally IDed as Red-naped, it took a few months for my friend to get good enough pics to show the extra red. I was pretty bummed when I found out, it would have been a lifer.

The sludge caught in the mind's filter, the stuff that refuses to go through, frequently becomes each person's private obsession. In civilized society we have an unspoken agreement to call our obsessions "hobbies". - Stephen King

 

All Yellow Warblers are yellow warblers, but not all yellow warblers are Yellow Warblers. - Me

 

My Year List

Spoiler

 

Latest Lifer(s):

Sooty Grouse, Great Gray Owl: Yosemite National Park, Mariposa County, CA, 8/18/14

Calliope Hummingbird, Evening Grosbeak: Niagara Creek Campgrounds, Tuolumne County, CA 8/4/14

Northern Goshawk: Eagle Meadow, Tuolumne County, CA, 8/4

Pine Grosbeak: Plasse's Resort, Amador County, CA, 7/27/14

Northern Pygmy Owl (FINALLY!): Del Puerto Canyon, Stanislaus County, CA, 3/24/14

 

Favorite Recent Birds (non-lifers):

Short-billed Dowitcher: Ceres Wastewater Treatment Facility, Cere, CA, 8/20/14

Yellow-bellied Sapsucker: Yosemite National Park, Mariposa County, CA, 8/18/14

Peregrine Falcon, Black Tern, Bank Swallow: Modesto Wastewater treatment Facility, Modesto, CA, 8/10/14

Mountain Quail: Hwy 108 at Cow Creek, Tulomne County, CA, 8/4/14

Prairie Falcon, Pileated Woodpecker (5), Pygmy Nuthatch: Plasse's Resort, Amador County, CA, 7/27/14

Western Screech-Owl: Enslen Park, Modesto, CA, 4/16/14, 7/2/14, 7/6/14


#15 TytoAlba

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:46 AM

So even though this bird is likely 80% red-naped if not more, you don't count it? I haven't run into this kind of situation with my life list yet, but what is protocol?

-Alex

 

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#16 Phoenix Bird

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

I think everyone agreed its a red-naped, maybe a discussion about possible mixed way back, but nothing concrete. ;)
I would have no problem counting it. Its a red-naped

#17 darknight

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:12 PM

Red-naped and Red-breasted Sapsuckers interbreed where there ranges overlap, and the hybrids vary in appearance. While this bird mostly looks like a Red-naped Sapsucker, it's certainly a hybrid, because of the more extensive red on the breast. I'm not qualified to say if it's a first generation hybrid, or a backcross (I'm not even sure of the degree of backcrossing these two species are capable of, or if the hybrids are fertile), but it's definitely not a pure Red-naped, and as such, not technically countable. It's a tough call, because it looks pretty close to a normal Red-naped. A similar situation in the east would be Blue-winged and Golden-winged Warblers.. would you count a bird that looked mostly like a Golden-winged Warbler, but had some slightly off characteristics, or would you consider it an uncountable hybrid?

There are 976 species on the ABA list. Looks like I've got a lot of birding to do....

Life List (World): 1094 species
ABA area: 634
Latest ABA lifers: Least Storm-Petrel, Ashy Storm-Petrel, Black Storm-Petrel, Craveri's Murrelet, White-eared Hummingbird, Ruff, Black-vented Shearwater, Rosy-faced Lovebird, Sinaloa Wren, Rufous-capped Warbler, Greater Sage-Grouse, Harris Sparrow, Tufted Duck, Red-throated Pipit, 
California: 348
Riverside County, CA: 256
2014 ABA: 409

2014 World: 669


#18 darknight

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:34 PM

I just looked it up, and apparently these two species have fertile hybirds, so it's quite possible that this is a backcross (red-naped x Red-breasted that bred with a pure Red-naped).

There are 976 species on the ABA list. Looks like I've got a lot of birding to do....

Life List (World): 1094 species
ABA area: 634
Latest ABA lifers: Least Storm-Petrel, Ashy Storm-Petrel, Black Storm-Petrel, Craveri's Murrelet, White-eared Hummingbird, Ruff, Black-vented Shearwater, Rosy-faced Lovebird, Sinaloa Wren, Rufous-capped Warbler, Greater Sage-Grouse, Harris Sparrow, Tufted Duck, Red-throated Pipit, 
California: 348
Riverside County, CA: 256
2014 ABA: 409

2014 World: 669


#19 TheBillyPilgrim

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:43 PM

I just looked it up, and apparently these two species have fertile hybirds, so it's quite possible that this is a backcross (red-naped x Red-breasted that bred with a pure Red-naped).


Yep,the two used to be considered conspecific.

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#20 JimBob

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

I agree, it's a hybrid. Not countable, but IMO a great bird!

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