Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Allen's or Rufous Male Hummingbird


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:10 AM

apparently both can have green backs and according to Sibley's they are difficult to tell apart except for broader wings on Rufous version.

Any experts out there? southern cal location about 1 mile from beach if that helps any. Found in largers tree not shrubs

Posted Image
Hummingbird - Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

have a few more photos if needed

#2 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:15 AM

i believe its an allens., rufous can be marked with green but very rarely entirely green, . i see a green back on this one and it appears to be a male allens but wait for others to reply. maybe post some other pictures so we can see more of the bird. :)

#3 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:26 AM

Ok thanks Birdluvr..working on some other shots at the moment - will try and upload very soon

#4 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:34 AM

Ok here's another photo from the backside..perhaps this will asist

Posted Image
Hummingbird - Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

#5 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:39 AM

hmmm its hard to say. im still leaning towards allens.. im in southern calif also and get both rufous and allens side by side at my feeders too, normally i can tell them apart. usually male rufous has very little green on the back if at all. females tend to have more green on them but this is a male due to the colorful gorget

#6 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:41 AM

And one more if it helps any

Posted Image
Hummingbird - Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

#7 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:57 AM

here's another. I too am convinced this is an Allen's. Thanks Birdluvr

Posted Image
Allen's Hummingbird Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

#8 LittleBird

LittleBird

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 51 posts
  • LocationBaton Rouge, LA

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:58 AM

Beautiful shots. I think all three of these shots are of different birds. The first has a fully colored gorget and rufous flanks, the second has just a patch of colored gorget and rufous flanks, the third also has only a patch of colored gorget and mostly white flanks. I think that means the first is a male, the second two are females. As to what species they are I am not qualified or comfortable to weigh in. Again, excellent shots!

#9 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:03 AM

I am pretty sure its the same bird I was circling around the same bush and watched this bird for about 30 minutes. Though with my eye in the view finder anything is possible to happen right before my eyes especially with their speed. And where there's one, there's likely others.

here's one more shot. this is perhaps my favorite of the bunch.

Posted Image
Allen's Humminbird - Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

#10 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:30 AM

thats definitely an allens :)

#11 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:41 AM

Birdluvr..it appears at this same park I've got mixed in here a few different birds though more than likely of the same species just check out the gorget on the first photo vs. the rest. much different - I appreciate all the assistance.

A few more photos at: http://www.flickr.com/revup67

#12 psweet

psweet

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 18,454 posts
  • LocationNortheast Illinois

Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

Given that you're in Southern California where Allen's is expected, I'd have no trouble calling the first one an adult male Allen's. (If you want 100% certainty, you're going to have to catch one and measure the tail feathers, I'm afraid.) The others look like either immature males or females, and they're pretty much indistinguishable except in the hand.

#13 guy_incognito

guy_incognito

    guy_incognito

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,360 posts
  • LocationSo Cal

Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:24 PM

If you want a definite answer, you've definitely got Selasphorus hummingbirds. Rufous are back in So Cal now, just saw my first adult male at the feeder yesterday. Agree with psweet, the others all look like females or immature birds, so I wouldn't venture a guess on those.

Odds are strongly in favor of the the first bird being an Allen's, but you can't be 100% sure. Getting a good picture of it with spread tail feathers would be confirmatory.
Posted Image

Latest lifers: COMMON SCOTER, Tundra Bean-Goose, Harlequin Duck, Ruffed Grouse, Rock Sandpiper, Falcated Duck, Tufted Duck, Marbled Murrelet, Rustic Bunting, Sprague's Pipit, Ancient Murrelet, Red-necked Grebe, Snow Bunting, Snowy Owl, Olive-backed Pipit

 

Trip reports: Nor Cal and Oregon 1&2/2015, Colorado 6/2014, Costa Rica 3/2014, SE AZ rarities 2/2014, Texas 12/2013, Central CA 8/2013, Arizona 6/2013, Midwest 5/2013, Hawaii 2/2013, Florida 9-10/2012, Monterey 8/2012, Salton Sea 7/2012, SE AZ 6/2012, Chicago 5/2012, Arizona 3/12, Arizona 12/11, Chicago 9/2011, Monterey 8/11, Arizona 12/10


#14 DaveWo

DaveWo

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts
  • LocationLexington, SC

Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:26 PM

I have no idea what type it is, but the camera work is gorgeous! :)

~ For heavens sake, why couldn't I have fallen in love with squirrel photography?


#15 TheBillyPilgrim

TheBillyPilgrim

    Frank

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,722 posts
  • LocationHampton, VA

Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

thats definitely an allens :)


As Psweet and GuyIncognito pointed out, there's no way to ever be 100% on these birds without a great shot of the tail or the bird in hand.

Life List: 707

Latest birds:  Little Gull, Thick-billed Murre, Short-eared Owl

My Flickr
eBird
 

Nevada Field Season Report: http://www.whatbird....-season-report/

Costa Rica Trip Report: http://www.whatbird....rt/#entry396425


#16 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:13 PM

those are all allens. some are immature, some females but all allens. theres too much green in them for rufous. i know people say male rufous can have green on them, which is true but if they do have green, its normally just flecks of green, if at all,and females on the other hand can have more green on them but i still believe they are all allens.

#17 cany

cany

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • LocationSo. Cal. Foothills, Cleveland Ntl. Forest

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:28 PM

If you want a definite answer, you've definitely got Selasphorus hummingbirds. Rufous are back in So Cal now, just saw my first adult male at the feeder yesterday. Agree with psweet, the others all look like females or immature birds, so I wouldn't venture a guess on those.

Odds are strongly in favor of the the first bird being an Allen's, but you can't be 100% sure. Getting a good picture of it with spread tail feathers would be confirmatory.
Posted Image

That is one incredible shot!

And Rev, very nice photos as usual. I have a feeling we'll cross paths one of these days:) I keep a look out for a big 400mm lens:)

Life list: 343
Most recent lifers: Little Gull, Glaucous Gull, Thayer's Gull, Ancient Murrelet, Winter Wren 

 
This year's goal: Get life list to 375, see 315 different birds this year. 
 
Seen/heard: 235
To go: 80

 

My wee blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

 


#18 creeker

creeker

    creeker

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 10,185 posts
  • LocationSan Diego County

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

If you want a definite answer, you've definitely got Selasphorus hummingbirds. Rufous are back in So Cal now, just saw my first adult male at the feeder yesterday. Agree with psweet, the others all look like females or immature birds, so I wouldn't venture a guess on those.

Odds are strongly in favor of the the first bird being an Allen's, but you can't be 100% sure. Getting a good picture of it with spread tail feathers would be confirmatory.
Posted Image

guy_ you never fail to amaze me!
Creationist Birder

#19 darknight

darknight

    Wandering Birder

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,576 posts
  • LocationRiverside, CA

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:43 PM

those are all allens. some are immature, some females but all allens. theres too much green in them for rufous. i know people say male rufous can have green on them, which is true but if they do have green, its normally just flecks of green, if at all,and females on the other hand can have more green on them but i still believe they are all allens.


The female and immatures of both species have all green backs, and are indistinguishable from each other by plumage You'll find this supported by all major field guides and hummingbird experts. It's tough, because we birders always want to put a name to every bird we see, but in this case that's just not possible. There is just no way of reliably identifying females and immatures by plumage.


Here's some good links with more info on the topic, discussing that fact that there is apparently overlap in the back color of even adult males, (including some bird that were adult male rufous hummingbirds by measurement, but showed greater than 95% green backs!).
http://texasbirds.or...llenshummt.html
http://home.pacifier...HUMMREPORT.html
http://www.hummingbi...net/rufous.html

There are 976 species on the ABA list. Looks like I've got a lot of birding to do....

Life List (World): 1101 species
ABA area: 637
Latest ABA lifers: Rhinoceros Auklet, Pacific Golden Plover, Olive-backed Pipit, Rufous-backed Robin Least Storm-Petrel, Ashy Storm-Petrel, Black Storm-Petrel, Craveri's Murrelet, White-eared Hummingbird, Ruff, Black-vented Shearwater, Rosy-faced Lovebird, Sinaloa Wren, Rufous-capped Warbler, Greater Sage-Grouse, Harris Sparrow, Tufted Duck, Red-throated Pipit
California: 367

Riverside County, CA: 275
2015 ABA: 190

 


#20 TheBillyPilgrim

TheBillyPilgrim

    Frank

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,722 posts
  • LocationHampton, VA

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

those are all allens. some are immature, some females but all allens. theres too much green in them for rufous. i know people say male rufous can have green on them, which is true but if they do have green, its normally just flecks of green, if at all,and females on the other hand can have more green on them but i still believe they are all allens.


Sorry Birdluvr, but this logic is incorrect and poor information. Some male rufous are essentially identical to Allen's in the amount of green they show, and the females and immatures are indistinguishable outside of tail feather shape. I suggest doing some reading on the subject (Darknight provided some great links) to better understand the nuances of these challenging IDs.

Life List: 707

Latest birds:  Little Gull, Thick-billed Murre, Short-eared Owl

My Flickr
eBird
 

Nevada Field Season Report: http://www.whatbird....-season-report/

Costa Rica Trip Report: http://www.whatbird....rt/#entry396425





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users