Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Allen's or Rufous Male Hummingbird


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 479 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:10 AM

apparently both can have green backs and according to Sibley's they are difficult to tell apart except for broader wings on Rufous version.

Any experts out there? southern cal location about 1 mile from beach if that helps any. Found in largers tree not shrubs

Posted Image
Hummingbird - Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

have a few more photos if needed

#2 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:15 AM

i believe its an allens., rufous can be marked with green but very rarely entirely green, . i see a green back on this one and it appears to be a male allens but wait for others to reply. maybe post some other pictures so we can see more of the bird. :)

#3 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 479 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:26 AM

Ok thanks Birdluvr..working on some other shots at the moment - will try and upload very soon

#4 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 479 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:34 AM

Ok here's another photo from the backside..perhaps this will asist

Posted Image
Hummingbird - Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

#5 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:39 AM

hmmm its hard to say. im still leaning towards allens.. im in southern calif also and get both rufous and allens side by side at my feeders too, normally i can tell them apart. usually male rufous has very little green on the back if at all. females tend to have more green on them but this is a male due to the colorful gorget

#6 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 479 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:41 AM

And one more if it helps any

Posted Image
Hummingbird - Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

#7 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 479 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:57 AM

here's another. I too am convinced this is an Allen's. Thanks Birdluvr

Posted Image
Allen's Hummingbird Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

#8 LittleBird

LittleBird

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 51 posts
  • LocationBaton Rouge, LA

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:58 AM

Beautiful shots. I think all three of these shots are of different birds. The first has a fully colored gorget and rufous flanks, the second has just a patch of colored gorget and rufous flanks, the third also has only a patch of colored gorget and mostly white flanks. I think that means the first is a male, the second two are females. As to what species they are I am not qualified or comfortable to weigh in. Again, excellent shots!

#9 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 479 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:03 AM

I am pretty sure its the same bird I was circling around the same bush and watched this bird for about 30 minutes. Though with my eye in the view finder anything is possible to happen right before my eyes especially with their speed. And where there's one, there's likely others.

here's one more shot. this is perhaps my favorite of the bunch.

Posted Image
Allen's Humminbird - Creekside Park by Revup67, on Flickr

#10 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:30 AM

thats definitely an allens :)

#11 Revup67

Revup67

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 479 posts
  • LocationSouthern California

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:41 AM

Birdluvr..it appears at this same park I've got mixed in here a few different birds though more than likely of the same species just check out the gorget on the first photo vs. the rest. much different - I appreciate all the assistance.

A few more photos at: http://www.flickr.com/revup67

#12 psweet

psweet

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 16,067 posts
  • LocationNortheast Illinois

Posted 08 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

Given that you're in Southern California where Allen's is expected, I'd have no trouble calling the first one an adult male Allen's. (If you want 100% certainty, you're going to have to catch one and measure the tail feathers, I'm afraid.) The others look like either immature males or females, and they're pretty much indistinguishable except in the hand.

#13 guy_incognito

guy_incognito

    guy_incognito

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,808 posts
  • LocationSo Cal

Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:24 PM

If you want a definite answer, you've definitely got Selasphorus hummingbirds. Rufous are back in So Cal now, just saw my first adult male at the feeder yesterday. Agree with psweet, the others all look like females or immature birds, so I wouldn't venture a guess on those.

Odds are strongly in favor of the the first bird being an Allen's, but you can't be 100% sure. Getting a good picture of it with spread tail feathers would be confirmatory.
Posted Image

Latest lifers: Blue-winged Warbler, Sharp-tailed Grouse, Chestnut-collared Longspur, McCown's Longspur, American Three-toed Woodpecker, Brown-capped Rosy-Finch, White-tailed Ptarmigan, Pine Grosbeak, Northern Saw-whet Owl, Smith's Longspur, Gray-crowned Rosy-Finch

Trip reports: Colorado 6/2014, Costa Rica 3/2014, Texas 12/2013, Central CA 8/2013, Arizona 6/2013, Midwest 5/2013, Hawaii 2/2013, Florida 9-10/2012, Monterey 8/2012, Salton Sea 7/2012, SE AZ 6/2012, Chicago 5/2012, Arizona 3/12, Arizona 12/11, Chicago 9/2011, Monterey 8/11, Arizona 12/10


#14 DaveWo

DaveWo

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts
  • LocationLexington, SC

Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:26 PM

I have no idea what type it is, but the camera work is gorgeous! :)

~ For heavens sake, why couldn't I have fallen in love with squirrel photography?


#15 TheBillyPilgrim

TheBillyPilgrim

    Frank

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,930 posts
  • LocationSmithfield, VA (again)

Posted 08 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

thats definitely an allens :)


As Psweet and GuyIncognito pointed out, there's no way to ever be 100% on these birds without a great shot of the tail or the bird in hand.

Life List: 684

Latest birds:  Hermit Warbler, Sooty Grouse, Pine Grosbeak, Calliope Hummingbird

ABA 2014: 309 species
Virginia 2014: 225
Isle of Wight County 2014: 180 species

My Flickr
eBird
 

Nevada Field Season Report: http://www.whatbird....-season-report/

Costa Rica Trip Report: http://www.whatbird....rt/#entry396425


#16 Guest_Birdluvr_*

Guest_Birdluvr_*
  • Guests

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:13 PM

those are all allens. some are immature, some females but all allens. theres too much green in them for rufous. i know people say male rufous can have green on them, which is true but if they do have green, its normally just flecks of green, if at all,and females on the other hand can have more green on them but i still believe they are all allens.

#17 cany

cany

    Advanced Member

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,367 posts
  • LocationSo. Cal. Foothills, Cleveland Ntl. Forest

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:28 PM

If you want a definite answer, you've definitely got Selasphorus hummingbirds. Rufous are back in So Cal now, just saw my first adult male at the feeder yesterday. Agree with psweet, the others all look like females or immature birds, so I wouldn't venture a guess on those.

Odds are strongly in favor of the the first bird being an Allen's, but you can't be 100% sure. Getting a good picture of it with spread tail feathers would be confirmatory.
Posted Image

That is one incredible shot!

And Rev, very nice photos as usual. I have a feeling we'll cross paths one of these days:) I keep a look out for a big 400mm lens:)

New Birder January 1, 2013
Life list: 326
Most recent lifersCraveri's MurreletAshy Storm-Petral, Grasshopper Sparrow, Willow Flycatcher, Barn Owl, Olive-sided Flycatcher, Sabine's Gull, Scripp's Murrelet, Rhinoceros Auklet, Black Storm-Petral, MacGillivray's Warbler, Black-chinned Sparrow, Gull-billed Tern, Calliope Hummingbird,  Red Knot, Violet-green Swallow, Short-billed Dowitcher, Mountain Quail, Summer Tanager, Dusky Flycatcher, Baltimore Oriole, Sage Thrasher, Northern Saw-whet Owl, Western Screech Owl, Cassin's Vireo, Northern Waterthrush, Rusty Blackbird, Tricolored Blackbird, Burrowing Owl, Prairie Falcon, White-winged Scoter, Herring Gull, Scissor-tailed Flycatcher, Hermit Warbler, Lewis's Woodpecker, Plumbeous Vireo

 
-- DONE! My first goal is met: get 100 birds in the first week of January (and I'm over count and still have two days to go). My approach was not to go after the easy birds, but the harder ones and pick up the easier ones along the way. So meeting this goal without really birding the easy spots is encouraging. I might feel different in August.
--  DONE! My goal for the next week (through the 15th) is to get my count up somewhere around 160. That shouldn't be too hard I don't think as I am missing a number of pretty easy species because I've been concentrating on local rarities. I am, however, taking a trip to the grasslands on Sunday hoping to get a new raptor or two and Mountain Bluebird.
--  DONE! With (yeah!) days to go! My goal for this week (through the 22nd of Jan) is to get my numbers up to around 170. I'd like to hit 175. We'll see. (I was 9 birds over... horray!)
--  1/2 DONE This week's goal will be to get my life list to 300 and my seen list up to 195. Did not get my life list to 300. Didn't leave the county this week.
--  Finally completed last week's goal.
--  DONE! This weeks goal (to Feb 14) is to get to 206 seen birds, including at least one owl (heard or seen for owl), and add at least one life bird.
 
This year's goal: Get life list to 400, see 365 different birds this year, and travel to at least three other states. The last part is the hardest for me.
 
Seen/heard: 281 (one is under discussion)
To go: 84

 

My new Blog: http://thisskysings.wordpress.com/

 


#18 creeker

creeker

    creeker

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,608 posts
  • LocationSan Diego County

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:38 PM

If you want a definite answer, you've definitely got Selasphorus hummingbirds. Rufous are back in So Cal now, just saw my first adult male at the feeder yesterday. Agree with psweet, the others all look like females or immature birds, so I wouldn't venture a guess on those.

Odds are strongly in favor of the the first bird being an Allen's, but you can't be 100% sure. Getting a good picture of it with spread tail feathers would be confirmatory.
Posted Image

guy_ you never fail to amaze me!
Creationist Birder

#19 darknight

darknight

    Wandering Birder

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 7,331 posts
  • LocationRiverside, CA

Posted 08 March 2013 - 07:43 PM

those are all allens. some are immature, some females but all allens. theres too much green in them for rufous. i know people say male rufous can have green on them, which is true but if they do have green, its normally just flecks of green, if at all,and females on the other hand can have more green on them but i still believe they are all allens.


The female and immatures of both species have all green backs, and are indistinguishable from each other by plumage You'll find this supported by all major field guides and hummingbird experts. It's tough, because we birders always want to put a name to every bird we see, but in this case that's just not possible. There is just no way of reliably identifying females and immatures by plumage.


Here's some good links with more info on the topic, discussing that fact that there is apparently overlap in the back color of even adult males, (including some bird that were adult male rufous hummingbirds by measurement, but showed greater than 95% green backs!).
http://texasbirds.or...llenshummt.html
http://home.pacifier...HUMMREPORT.html
http://www.hummingbi...net/rufous.html

There are 976 species on the ABA list. Looks like I've got a lot of birding to do....

Life List (World): 928 species
ABA area: 621
Latest birds: Rosy-faced Lovebird, Sinaloa Wren, Rufous-capped Warbler, Greater Sage-Grouse, Harris Sparrow, Tufted Duck, Red-throated Pipit, Blue-footed Booby, Black Swift, Scripp's Murrulet, Cassin's Auklet, Pink-footed Shearwater, Island Scrub-Jay, Leach's Storm Petrel, South Polar Skua, Arctic Loon, Saltmarsh Sparrow
California: 323
Riverside County, CA: 246
2014: 364


#20 TheBillyPilgrim

TheBillyPilgrim

    Frank

  • New Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 12,930 posts
  • LocationSmithfield, VA (again)

Posted 08 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

those are all allens. some are immature, some females but all allens. theres too much green in them for rufous. i know people say male rufous can have green on them, which is true but if they do have green, its normally just flecks of green, if at all,and females on the other hand can have more green on them but i still believe they are all allens.


Sorry Birdluvr, but this logic is incorrect and poor information. Some male rufous are essentially identical to Allen's in the amount of green they show, and the females and immatures are indistinguishable outside of tail feather shape. I suggest doing some reading on the subject (Darknight provided some great links) to better understand the nuances of these challenging IDs.

Life List: 684

Latest birds:  Hermit Warbler, Sooty Grouse, Pine Grosbeak, Calliope Hummingbird

ABA 2014: 309 species
Virginia 2014: 225
Isle of Wight County 2014: 180 species

My Flickr
eBird
 

Nevada Field Season Report: http://www.whatbird....-season-report/

Costa Rica Trip Report: http://www.whatbird....rt/#entry396425





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users