Whatbird.com

Time out.

This entire thread started with just one simple observation - that it's not good form to edit the factual content of a posting after a discussion has already begun.  It's dishonest, that's all. It wasn't intended to ruffle any feathers, just to nip that one thing in the bud. But since that one single observation, some have instead taken the thread off on all kinds of tangents that were not intended and have nothing to do with the original point.

People may not realize the enormous amount of time, human effort, and money went into designing this extremely comprehensive site in the first place, so that it could serve as a definitive search engine and primary reference source for people wishing to learn more about the science of birds.  It is a serious site, which is not in any way the same thing as saying that good observations can't also be lighthearted. Now some folks have gone to the extreme of not only defending their "right" to frivolous postings, but actually ridiculing and diverting the site's original scientific purpose. There is also no place for personal insults or accusations. If your posting is to contribute to your learning, or to the learning of others, then you are using the site for what it was designed.

 

you are right... the original post was straightforward, and needed...but snowyowl, i think we need a definitive line in the sand here...do we need to limit our answers to only birds we are 100% positive we are correct about? i am serious, not joking...we can all live by the rules, if we know what the rules are...thanks

really, i think it's absolutely acceptable to take a guess at a bird you might not be 100% about.  It will make the original poster perhaps look up that bird (always consult more than one source), and consider it.  There may be something the OP can remember, like specific movements, or song, that could help ID it, and then let the OP make the decision.  It brings to light other birds perhaps the OP might not have considered, or thought to look at, such as females and juveniles of a species that might not look anythign like the often only published mature male.  

 

If the OP still has trouble confirming an ID through suggestions here, then perhaps a conclusion can be reached by a majority response.

 

I do find it helpful though, when someone says "It's a ______, because of it's (distinctive feature)." 

Ok All this talk is a little out of whack but i just read all the posts here and some of them are just crazy. (TheGrine)  I think people have the right to speak there mind and give their opions.  And if people dont like it, thats to bad.  Just because some of you kno every bird in the world doesnt mean you can judge the people that dont.  I think some of you should think about be a little repectful.   

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~dp7767~

I agree that it probably isn't best to edit a post and change factual information in it. I have done so only once.
Many people here are just guessing and do not know much about IDing birds.

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2008 Yard List: 126
Recent: White-winged Crossbill, Pine Siskin
Highlights: Hoary Redpoll, Golden Eagle, Fish Crow
2008 Year List: 197
Recent: Pine Siskin, Northern Gannet, Red-necked Grebe
Highlights: Cackling Goose, Black Vulture, Merlin

If this sight was meant to be a serious scientific site with zero tolerance for those who are not as intellegent about the bird world as several of you, you need to change the way people sign up. I agree with snowyowl about the chicken thing... btw thats a kid with alot of time on his hands, not the typical birder on here. Call me niave but i dont think any one on here is making wild ass guesses.

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Itsjustdeb

Whoa! 

This is getting a little out of control! First of all I agree with Snowyowl about changing of posts can be dishonest. Thank you for addressing the issue. What is happening here? There is no need for insults. I am by no means an expert. Most of my knowledge is Eastern birds.  This is a great site, because we share are experiences, knowledge ( both from the field and from books). Experts and beginners talk, and learn new things. I agree people shouldn't post things if they know they are wrong, but some times guessing is a necessary part of learning. Often many of those guesses are right! If no one made those guesses, people wouldn't learn as much and this forum would only be for the experts.
 If all the agreeing bugs you, you could ignore it. Remember we are all here because of one thing: an interest in birds. Please understand- this is a wonderful and helpful site. When we start insulting and belittling people we could lose that.
 

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New Additions to Life List: semipalmated plover, prairie warbler, belted kingfisher, ruddy turnstone

Who runs this site?

 I think it might be time to appoint some moderators like other forums have. When a post is obviously wrong, or a personal attack is made, the moderator can delete the post. Or, if a post is put in the wrong place (pet chicken dying), then a moderator can move the post to the appropriate room.

Seems to me, there's no police force on this forum.

I know the one forum which I post to all the time (not this one), we had trouble with elitists and arrogance. The administrator of this site should set some ground rules and have a moderator carry out the wishes of the site administrator.

 Just my .02

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Don't cry because it's over, smile because you were there.

snowyowl:

Just an observation:  It's really poor etiquette to alter a posting after the fact.  If you learn something new from the discussion and change your mind, put that in a new posting - don't just quietly change the old one.  We all make mistakes - there's no shame in that. The whole point of the forum is to learn and share, not to show the world that you're right all the time.

I just want to show you guys what the original post was- note the " learn and share" part 

 

 edit: I also agree about the moderator thing 

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New Additions to Life List: semipalmated plover, prairie warbler, belted kingfisher, ruddy turnstone

I don't have a comment about the editing b/c I didn't even know it was going on. 

 About the guessing I have two views.  If it's a blurry pic or vague description then there is no choice but to guess and of birders at every level do just that.  Sometimes guessing is like brainstorming.  But I agree that if the pic or description is clear and there is a great chance of someone in this forum identifying it, then too-quick-of-a-guess can be misleading or disruptive to the identification process.  I agree with MaBa...just ignore them!!  I log onto this forum everyday and I don't see anything too excessively annoying. 

 One thing I would like to see happen more often, especially from all you guys/gals with postings in the hundreds and thousands, is giving more detail in you're response to an ID question.  This goes for everyone in this forum...Please, if you are making an ID or correcting an ID...please give as many details as possible as to how you came up with that conclusion.  I see far too many "it's an orchard oriole not a easter towhee" with no follow up facts.  An ID may be obvious to a seasoned birder; the distinction is not clear to a newbie or intermediate birder.  Don't get wrong I know that the majority of posts DO offer this information and that's why I love this forum.  And I know that everyone is busy and sometimes can only post a few words or sentences, so don't get me wrong.  I think if the first person to make an ID on a bird can say WHY...there would be less guesses and more information shared!!

 

 

 
 

Wow...

 I feel like an idiot b/c I didn't know there were THREE more pages of responses to the original post!!  I just read the first post!!  That conversation takes on a whole different feeling past the first page!!!  I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and hug something!!
 

I volunteer to be the mod!

 

Ha, that's a 100% joke.

 I was a member of a site and I had about 9 grand worth of posts, this new joker showed up and they made him a mod, it kind of hurt a lot of us old time posters. We got made mods later on down the road, but I still remember the burn. It would be nice for the site owner to pick a couple of old timers here with level heads and let them mod the site.

 If nothing else, they can real polite like move threads in the wrong section, or brings threads back on topic, or answer some of the threads in the support forum that never get taken care of.

 A mod or two would be very nice.

 

 

 

To answer Birdseye's question, of course one doesn't need to be 100% sure (often it's impossible to be sure) to offer an opinion.  And guesses are fine too (whoever said they weren't?), but, reasonably, the person offering the suggestion or guess would be contributing something positive if they would state what field signs drew them to that particular ID.  That's just the systematic way of solving a problem. And the only "rule" is to use good common sense and to be courteous.

It's amazing to see how many folks took this opportunity to air various gripes. That can only be a good thing.  Less experienced contributors certainly have every right to receive courtesy, so if anyone thinks they have received anything less than a best effort answer to a reasonable question, from any of the folks who offer their time to answer questions, they shouldn't be afraid to say so.

But people should make an effort to be respectful of the original noble intent of the site - which is, after all, to ID birds as accurately as possible.
 

Ok, let’s end this. I feel that I started the whole thing. I don’t want anyone leaving the forum because I can’t ID birds. I just enjoy the challenge. What can I say? It’s fun. From now on I promise I’ll stick to the “Dear CinArt” column for giving advice. (Did I mention that I tend to take things personally?) You people are unreal! Lighten up!! Life is too short……………

Mabo, I like your thoughts. I never changed anything to boost an ego, just to hide stupidity. My Gosh, people are intense……………..