Whatbird.com

To answer Photgog's question..... OK, count a sub-species or not?  To make it simple, I do.  My logic originally involved the red-backed dark-eyed junco.  Simply looking at it vs the Oregon dark-eyed junco only a DNA scientist could tell you that it is the same species.  More importantly, any Eastern birder that has the slate-colored dark-eyed junco would love to get the Oregon.  With the small range for the red-backed the accomplishment would even be greater.  The same is true for those Californians that have the Reddish Egret Red Morph and not have the White Morph.  What birder, having the Red, wouldn't be just as excited getting the White as getting a new species.  So, like the discussion has mentioned many times, explain your life list to your fellow birder, it will guarantee a great discussion.  Also, most anyone with over 200 birds on their life list has an error in there somewhere.  My counting of sub-species is offset by the fact that I only count verified photographed birds, which by definition, reduces my number.  I attached the junco birds just to show the drastic difference.

Reddish Egret White Morph --- Absent on the west cost, common in the Bahamas and Greater Antilles

Red-backed dark-eyed junco --- Found only in Arizona and New Mexico

Red-tailed hawk dark morph --- found in western North America and then only 20% of the population

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Latest Birds: Black-throated Green Warbler, Pine Warbler, Eastern Kingbird, Rufous-backed Robin, Crissal Thrasher

Thank you... nice distinct way to define the 'List"

Fraser

Matt:

My counting of sub-species is offset by the fact that I only count verified photographed birds, which by definition, reduces my number.

I love the Junco example you've used here---I've seen both of the birds in your photos; to me they are distinctly different and I count them separately (as well as the Yellow-eyed Junco which is considered separate, but which to me looks exactly like the Dark-eyed except the eye color).
 

I do differ from you, however, in the photographed bird department---I quite often do not carry a camera, and rely instead on detail observations (sometimes taking notes). I started birding with someone who always had a camera, but I find that I have become a much more thorough observer since I stopped having that camera around. Not that it's bad to have the pix to confirm an ID, but just that it's too easy (for some of us) to rely upon the camera's 'eye' to see the details of the bird.

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8 days camping in Western Colorado and 5 new birds: Juniper Titmouse, Mountain Bluebird, Black-billed Magpie, Clark's Nutcracker, Gray Jay. Beautiful!!!

I couldn't agree with you more, but.....

I find myself staring at a bird once I get to know it.  So after chasing yellow-headed blackbirds since my first blurry one in January I hit a bonanza of them in Show Low.  I looked at them, studied them, the same with the red-winged.  So the big BUT (one t) is that I am colorblind and many of the birds I ID are with the help of the forum.  Some of the great insights on the forum are ground vs tree, single vs flock, etc.  The one area that I really have to work on is the sound.  Many of the birders on this site use it.  Thus with my colorblindness, not getting into the sound is a really big weakness.    

Glad to read that you are buying my logic on the junco.  BTW, I am still chasing after a good shot of the yellow-eyed.

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Latest Birds: Black-throated Green Warbler, Pine Warbler, Eastern Kingbird, Rufous-backed Robin, Crissal Thrasher

LOL, Matt! I was just looking through my old pix to post one of a Yellow-eyed Junco---heck, I see them regularly, and they're very friendly, so you'd assume I had a good pic. But no, blurry at best. Oh well!

 

A lot of the better birders I've been around have told me not to rely on color either---master shapes, patterns, size, bill, perching habits, etc. I am starting to work on the 'by ear' aspects as well. There is a workshop on it at the upcoming birding festival---going to try to get time off of work so I can attend.

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8 days camping in Western Colorado and 5 new birds: Juniper Titmouse, Mountain Bluebird, Black-billed Magpie, Clark's Nutcracker, Gray Jay. Beautiful!!!

This is an interesting discussion on techniques to use to sharpen birding identification.  Matt has colorblindness but overcomes it with photography and sound. Jmmoon does the camera thing but does not sometimes because it sharpens the observation.  Well put. 

Me I join this group of birding with a 70% deafness.  This problem is frequency related and gives me only marginal difficulty in discussions, BUT bird song is out of the question... sometimes I can see them singing but cannot hear the sound.

Walking wounded...

That said, with photography, study, and observation, I can still be the best birder that I can.  

Jmmoon, comment about his Junco bird blurry reminds me of some of my bird pictures, and a flaw in my birding logic.  

In Arizona we have a RARE bird... more than one... Abert's Towees are at my feeder every day, and I do not have a "Great" picture of one.  I have fairly good ones but not a really great picture.  Sometimes I... and perhaps "we" don't take advantage of the birding opportunities that are convenient.   I'm trying to correct that flaw...

 

Fraser

I recognize that my last post drifted from the original subject... "forum drift"... Well this is in General Discussion... so perhaps you can let this pass...

 

Fraser

I am a total newbie to birding.  Any suggestion is a good suggestion.  I do try and focus to a bird call but am not defining the call, a reaction I have to work on.  Some of this is like an artist, some really have it some don't.  My hearing skill, especially extremes on both ends, is excellent, my interpretation of that info today is useless with the exception of location.  Your deafness comment is intriguing.

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Latest Birds: Black-throated Green Warbler, Pine Warbler, Eastern Kingbird, Rufous-backed Robin, Crissal Thrasher

Matt:

I am a total newbie to birding.  Any suggestion is a good suggestion.  I do try and focus to a bird call but am not defining the call, a reaction I have to work on.  Some of this is like an artist, some really have it some don't.  My hearing skill, especially extremes on both ends, is excellent, my interpretation of that info today is useless with the exception of location.  Your deafness comment is intriguing.

Matt,

My family and I enjoy and love reading your posts and get excited when you start new threads for photos. Don't let people get you down. Keep up the discussions no matter what people post here.

 My daughter just checked out a CD set. Go to your local public library when you have time and check out the CD set Stokes Field Guide To Bird Songs (Eastern, or Western Regions, etc.), if that's not your thing try free iPod downloads, or bird ringtones. There are several online radio shows, blogs and resources for you!

And count every single freaky bird you know is listed and has an AOU name!

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"Watch the birdie."
Latest: Sage Thrasher, Ferruginous Hawk (Dark Morph).

thanks for your suggestion.  Just to make sure that there is no misunderstanding, the deafness comment was a concern for Photgog.  I am colorblind and he is 70% deaf.  Between the two of us you have one birder.  We both live in the same location and as soon as it gets below 150 degrees outside I am sure we will be birding together, at least I hope so.  The intriguing comment is just a thought about living in someone else's shoes.  Thanks again for the suggestion, I am going to follow up.

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Latest Birds: Black-throated Green Warbler, Pine Warbler, Eastern Kingbird, Rufous-backed Robin, Crissal Thrasher

"as soon as it gets below 150 degrees outside"  HAHAHA!!! Could be October by then! 

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8 days camping in Western Colorado and 5 new birds: Juniper Titmouse, Mountain Bluebird, Black-billed Magpie, Clark's Nutcracker, Gray Jay. Beautiful!!!

Yes... October... maybe November... Alas the birding world (outside of Arizona) does not realize the heat extremes that the wildlife lives through here... not to mention the birders that try to observe them. 

 

Fraser

Photgog:

In Arizona we have a RARE bird... more than one... Abert's Towees are at my feeder every day, and I do not have a "Great" picture of one.  I have fairly good ones but not a really great picture.  Sometimes I... and perhaps "we" don't take advantage of the birding opportunities that are convenient.   I'm trying to correct that flaw...

 

Just couldn't let this horse die....LOL

Fraser, you challenged me to look through my old pix for an Abert's Towhee photo, and I found I didn't have one at all. And yet, I see them all the time. So I took the camera out yesterday for a steamy morning walk---no problem finding the subject bird, but now I recall why I don't have a pic. These birds hang out low, usually on the ground and under bushes, and their backs are the color of dirt!  Julie

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8 days camping in Western Colorado and 5 new birds: Juniper Titmouse, Mountain Bluebird, Black-billed Magpie, Clark's Nutcracker, Gray Jay. Beautiful!!!

If you are having problems getting Abert's shots, invite them into your workshop.

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Latest Birds: Black-throated Green Warbler, Pine Warbler, Eastern Kingbird, Rufous-backed Robin, Crissal Thrasher