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Waterthrush

Last post 08-17-2008, 5:53 PM by snowyowl. 23 replies.
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  •  08-14-2008, 8:26 PM 55619

    Waterthrush

    Oh I get it. Ya mate a Song Sparrow with a House Wren and ya get a Waterthrush...right? <grin>

    Using the database I come up with Northern Waterthrush for this one. Am I right? Am I right? If I am it will make my day.

    I'll post 3 pics of the same individual.

  •  08-14-2008, 8:28 PM 55620 in reply to 55619

    Re: Waterthrush

  •  08-14-2008, 8:30 PM 55621 in reply to 55619

    Re: Waterthrush

  •  08-14-2008, 8:36 PM 55622 in reply to 55619

    Re: Waterthrush

    I agree. 

    I believe that it is a Northern Water Thrust.  Looks like it has the tinges of yellow on the breast and on the eyebrow.  The crown looks to brown.

    I only saw one picture. 

     
    If it had a center of orange in the crown and a white breast, then I would think Ovenbird.


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  •  08-14-2008, 9:04 PM 55629 in reply to 55619

    Re: Waterthrush

    Well, it certainly is one of the two waterthrushes, but the picture quality doesn't show the detail one would hope for.  You didn't say where the picture was taken; if it's somewhere where you don't find one or the other, then you'd have your ID for sure. For example, if this was Alaska, it couldn't be a Louisiana Waterthrush, etc.
  •  08-14-2008, 9:13 PM 55631 in reply to 55619

    Re: Waterthrush

    Sorry. Slipped my mind. Long Island NY last week.

    Does everyone see 3 pics? I do. I captured 2 shots in the shawdow and one in the early morning sunlight to help distiguish colors.

    I shot 2 minutes of video of this individual. If there is anything I should look for on the video just let me know and I will.

  •  08-14-2008, 9:36 PM 55632 in reply to 55631

    Re: Waterthrush

    In that locale you could see either.  What was the habitat?  Was there rapidly rushing water nearby (Louisiana prefers it)?  The yellowish tinge on the breast, if not artifactual in the photo, would suggest Northern Waterthrush.  Why not post a link to your video and let's have a look.
  •  08-15-2008, 7:58 PM 55687 in reply to 55619

    Re: Waterthrush

    Looks like a Northern Waterthrush to me. The Lousiana Waterthrush doesn't have the streaks on it's throat, and the auricular or cheek pattern differs in the way that song and chipping sparrows differ.  Nice catch!
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  •  08-15-2008, 8:21 PM 55688 in reply to 55687

    Re: Waterthrush

    Cornman:
    Looks like a Northern Waterthrush to me. The Lousiana Waterthrush doesn't have the streaks on it's throat, and the auricular or cheek pattern differs in the way that song and chipping sparrows differ.  Nice catch!

    Actually, neither species has streaks on the throat, and the cheek pattern is virtually indistinguishable. The best way to distinguish these two is the width and extent of the white supercilium (whiter, wider, and longer in Louisiana), the habitat, the song, the range, and the yellowish wash on the Northern's breast (which can sometimes be absent). Also the breast streaking is generally a bit more extensive on the Northern, but this can often be hard to tell in individuals in the field.  There does seem to be a yellowish wash on this bird, but the lighting is bad. If you can make a definitive ID from these pictures hats off to you, you're a better birder than most.

  •  08-15-2008, 9:50 PM 55693 in reply to 55688

    Re: Waterthrush

    snowyowl:

    Cornman:
    Looks like a Northern Waterthrush to me. The Lousiana Waterthrush doesn't have the streaks on it's throat, and the auricular or cheek pattern differs in the way that song and chipping sparrows differ.  Nice catch!

    Actually, neither species has streaks on the throat, and the cheek pattern is virtually indistinguishable. The best way to distinguish these two is the width and extent of the white supercilium (whiter, wider, and longer in Louisiana), the habitat, the song, the range, and the yellowish wash on the Northern's breast (which can sometimes be absent). Also the breast streaking is generally a bit more extensive on the Northern, but this can often be hard to tell in individuals in the field.  There does seem to be a yellowish wash on this bird, but the lighting is bad. If you can make a definitive ID from these pictures hats off to you, you're a better birder than most.

    Yikes!  I am certainly not a better birder than most, but I am a pretty good detective.  As you say, subtle yellowish coloration is difficult to be sure of in these pictures, and we can't hear the song, so I started with the fact that Northern's are frequent fliers on Long Island (as they are up my way), and Lousiana's would be rather infrequent.  I then compared images of the 2 species to find differences myself before turning to the books.  I found that the 'Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Birds (Eastern Region)' had the best method of differentiation between the 2 species that we could use with these particular photographs.  In the description of Louisiana Waterthrush it states "Similar to Northern Waterthrush but throat unstreaked and eyebrow white."  In the description of Northern Waterthrush - "...yellowish-white line over eye and streaked throat."  (their italics)  This seems to hold up against various photos.  As far as the auricular pattern, I admit that I came to that determination myself, shame on me, but check it out for yourself.  Anyway, no, I don't believe everything I read, and yes, I know there are misidentified images on the internet, but please bear in mind that I am not trying to impress or mislead anyone, I am only trying to help.

    P.S.  Here is a useful link http://www.hiltonpond.org/ThisWeek020515.html


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  •  08-16-2008, 4:53 AM 55705 in reply to 55632

    Re: Waterthrush

    snowyowl>>Why not post a link to your video and let's have a look. <<

    Sure. I'd love to. But where? The video is 76 megabytes. YouTube has serious memory upload restrictions. The only place that I know of where you can share such high digital quality video is Veoh.com which I am a member of. The problem with Veoh is that all users need to download and install special software - a process that, I would imagine, most people would not be intrested in.

    This was shot in a muddy pond. The bird never vocalized.  He was busy pulling food from the mud.

  •  08-16-2008, 6:32 AM 55712 in reply to 55705

    Re: Waterthrush

    In my personal experience, Louisianas aren't as heavily streaked as the bird in this photo. I would bet on Northern Waterthrush.

    In addition, if the habitat was a muddy pool, I wouldn't expect to see a Louisiana there. They prefer faster-moving water.


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  •  08-16-2008, 8:55 AM 55730 in reply to 55693

    Re: Waterthrush

    Sorry, no intent at all that anyone should wind up feeling so defensive.  The only point here is that there is much variation within species and one repeatedly falls into the trap of thinking one should be expected to be able to make a definitive ID based on one or two photos of a single individual, when the photo provided is often sketchy, and when often that individual does not conform exactly to the photo that happens to represent that same species in the book one happens to be looking in. There's nothing wrong with concluding it is 80 or 90% likely that something is this or that, leaving the appropriate room for doubt and leaving it at that. 
  •  08-16-2008, 9:23 AM 55734 in reply to 55730

    Re: Waterthrush

    Just an addendum to the current waterthrush thread...the muddy pond location is helpful and does favor Northern, but it wasn't mentioned in the original post with the pictures.  I don't live in NY, but we've had Louisiana Waterthrushes here in Connecticut all summer. Also, here's a photo I took in Alaska this June of a Northern Waterthrush that shows no streaking on the throat, despite what one book may say. This bird was flying back and forth across a stream and was perching both in small trees and on the ground.  One couldn't know that from the photo, which captured only one brief moment of that. One really needs to maintain a lot of objectivity.
  •  08-16-2008, 4:00 PM 55771 in reply to 55734

    Re: Waterthrush

    From the photos I see I have no doubt that this is a Northern Waterthrush, in my experience with Waterthrushes Louisiana never is this heavily streaked, nor has this narrow of an eyeline. Habitat doesn't seem to work for me, as during the spring I get both Louisiana and Northern on the same creek (and they both sing, so I have no doubt that I mis-IDed them), and I've seen Northern near fairly fast flowing waters in Montana and seen Louisiana in little mud puddles in Alabama, so habitat is often helpful but not all conclusive.



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